Question for music lovers

[Zarithar]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but this has been bothering me on and off for some time now.

Why is it that when a band that was once considered "fringe" or "underground" suddenly attains commercial success, they are considered "sellouts" (Example: Metallica, Green Day) ?

Sometimes it seems to me that it is like there is this "cool to hate" mentality. Someone help me understand please.

[Artisan]

I think it's often a result of a certain arrogance on the part of fans of 'underground' music, in that they feel pride in knowing all kinds of music which the 'general public' doesn't know. Once those bands get put in the limelight, however, there's no longer that feeling of exclusivity, and the more egotistical music fans move on to other unknown bands, and abandon the band that everyone now knows about. In that situation, it has little to do with the quality or style of the music.

Metallica is a bit of a different situation, which is also common, when a band or artist changes their sound, attitude, or look, and ticks off previously hard core fans. Most often, they're dismissed as having done so to pander to a wider audience.

If this is the case, then I think it would be the one situation where you could be called a sellout - if you change your style only because other people like the new style. However, this is hardly ever the case. Virtually all bands who undergo a change in their style or look do so based on their own preferences, and as long as you maintain your integrity by making the music you want to make, regardless of whether other people think it's trash, I don't believe you can be a sellout. And in the few cases where bands have adopted a style other than they themselves would choose to write music in, it is almost always the fault of pressure by the record company. There are countless examples of bands dropping their labels because of creative differences with their labels.

So it's almost never bands that 'sell out'. It's the record labels that are usually concerned solely with the bottom line, and push for more radio-friendly music.

[Radial]

I believe there is a MADTV skit that reflects my opinion on this pretty accurately.
*This is all opinion, and a fairly offensive one - be warned*
There are people that will strive so hard to not "fit into the box", that they hate on anything that can make it into mainstream media. These people become so hung up in this "underground" mindset, that they start losing their own opinions. People often follow the crowd, and like what other people like. These people do exactly the opposite - to the extreme. They like being the only person that's heard of "this band", they thrive on being the first person to hear "this music", and the second they are not they shun it as quickly as they do their self respect.

The funny and ironic part about the whole thing: these people are trying so hard to not be classified, that they are easily classified. Their extremist attitude digs their own hole, and they willingly jump in to dig it deeper.

To the people out there that hate band because "they are sellouts", you should take a long look at that band and ask yourself "Do I like their music". Disregard what everyone, everywhere, has ever told you, and make up your own damn mind. Disliking music because the band is a "sellout" is rubbish. If you don't like them because their music is different from what it once was, and it's not a style you like - fine.

[Zarithar]

I fully agree. If I like the music... I like the music. Simple as that!

[Follun]

I believe there is a MADTV skit that reflects my opinion on this pretty accurately.
*This is all opinion, and a fairly offensive one - be warned*
There are people that will strive so hard to not "fit into the box", that they hate on anything that can make it into mainstream media. These people become so hung up in this "underground" mindset, that they start losing their own opinions. People often follow the crowd, and like what other people like. These people do exactly the opposite - to the extreme. They like being the only person that's heard of "this band", they thrive on being the first person to hear "this music", and the second they are not they shun it as quickly as they do their self respect.

The funny and ironic part about the whole thing: these people are trying so hard to not be classified, that they are easily classified. Their extremist attitude digs their own hole, and they willingly jump in to dig it deeper.

To the people out there that hate band because "they are sellouts", you should take a long look at that band and ask yourself "Do I like their music". Disregard what everyone, everywhere, has ever told you, and make up your own damn mind. Disliking music because the band is a "sellout" is rubbish. If you don't like them because their music is different from what it once was, and it's not a style you like - fine.

I liked Southpark's take on this with the nonconformists as well... :)

[Tenolein]

I agree with each one of the posts above.

Although, I have a personal reason for hating Metallica. When they went gung ho against Napster (I still loathe Lars.. lol) and forced Napster to ban all people who were found with Metallica mp3s on their computer, I was bitten... Because I had my OWN, purchased, LEGAL copy of a few of their CDs burned onto my computer for my listening pleasure. And even though they weren't in my shared Napster folder, somehow, they found out, and banned me. And even though I dislike almost all metal now, I still feel those same emotions towards Metallica.

Fast forward to today.. Because I was bitten and learned from it, I now get all my music legally, mainly through iTunes. Wait.. Does that make ME a sellout?

[Artisan]

I agree with each one of the posts above.

Although, I have a personal reason for hating Metallica. When they went gung ho against Napster (I still loathe Lars.. lol) and forced Napster to ban all people who were found with Metallica mp3s on their computer, I was bitten... Because I had my OWN, purchased, LEGAL copy of a few of their CDs burned onto my computer for my listening pleasure. And even though they weren't in my shared Napster folder, somehow, they found out, and banned me. And even though I dislike almost all metal now, I still feel those same emotions towards Metallica.

Fast forward to today.. Because I was bitten and learned from it, I now get all my music legally, mainly through iTunes. Wait.. Does that make ME a sellout?

Only if the music you're buying legally is by Nickelback.

:D Just kidding. Sorta.

But yeah, that sounds like a fairly legitimate reason to me.

Anyway, I'm one of the few people who still buys actual CDs. I don't know, I just like to have the disc in my hand.

[Arkalite]

Theres a good book that explains Green Day's "sellout". It is called No One Likes You. I suggest it for anyone that is into that kind of Punk music, or reading about a good underground->mainstream progression.

[Mobutu]

Yeah, I still buy CD's as well, until all digital music is DRM free - Try playing your ITunes purchases on something not named "I-something" and weep.

Or how Walmart just closed their MP3 store and at first everyone was going to lose their music, then they were going to get to keep "10 songs" like that would somehow make up for it.

On the point of this thread, yeah, good music = good music.

Though, I do believe it is possible to "sell out" - by changing your music so much in order to make money that it becomes "mass market pop crap", I don't think it is inherent to success. Many bands are making a lot of money and still doing the music they want to do. Many other artists are all but engineered for mass market appeal - but even that doesn't always mean "selling out."

And what one person will call "selling out" another will call "being successful."

I am friends with an awesomely talented band (Madahoochi), and I sincerely hope they "sell out" someday. God knows they deserve to make a little money doing what they love to do - making and playing music.