GU Forums Simple RPT System development

[$tormin]

The system used in the Tacharis, Low Fantasy and Steampunk RPTs seems to work quite well in keeping the essential game mechanics from interfering with the players good times while keeping a limit to character power and ability. I believe the system could easily be worked out into a sort of Guide that can just be copy/pasted into any RPT with any setting with minimal work used to remove skills and rules that do not fit the setting (ex. Magic in non fantasy settings) and add skills and rules that are specific to only that game (house rules).

Generally 5 skills are given to each character so all skills must be of sufficient usefulness that someone with such limited number they can pick will not automatically pass it by.
Skills can be simple, they give full ability with one point spent. An example of this would be the skill Dumb Luck which lets you get away with being very loose with probability.
Tiered skills have two or more levels each better than the last but still the same ability. An example of this would be Healing where first level gives simple first aid and last level is Brain Surgeon.
Higher Cost. Skills that are so powerful that they require a higher than 1 point cost but cannot be broken down into tiers.

Here are examples of how skills can be displayed

Animal Handling (1 pt): Able to deal with out of control, untrained or poorly trained animals. Allows training of non-magical animals within reason. Some animals are inherently untrainable. ((Nearly All Settings))

Jack of Trades (2 pt): Can pick 3 Tier 1 skills with a 1 point cost and perform them to a slightly lesser ability than another who paid full price. ((Nearly All Settings))

Clockwork Engineering 1 (1 pt): Allows the repair, design and construction of simple clockwork or steampunk vehicles or creations. Higher skill allows more complex workings. ((Steampunk or Fantasy Settings))

Post suggestions for or discuss rules and skills. When the entire thing is compiled I will put it into its own thread and ask for it to be stickied for reference.

[Gumblackwood]

Well, let's discuss demolitions, this is how I see it:

Demolitions (1pt): Allows the safe handling and mixing of unstable chemical or magical ingredients into controlled explosives, rockets, grenades and bombs. Includes some structural knowledge to assist with placement and detonation. Anyone can carry and throw grenades or bombs, but the safety issues keep most from doing so.

[Slarethorn]

Here's how I envisioned the aforementioned Weapon Focus skill:

Weapon Focus (specific): Improved skill with melee weapon of choice. When wielding this weapon, the user is able to strike with more speed and power than someone who is not focused in its use. The wielder can also defend more effectively as well, improving the user's ability to block and parry incoming melee attacks. They are also more difficult to disarm. Prereq.: Melee Weapons or Exotic Weapon (specific, melee only).

[Woody]

Is there something I could do to make this kind of thing easier on you guys?

[$tormin]

Is there something I could do to make this kind of thing easier on you guys?


I don't really see how administrator help would be needed. This is just to try to develop a game guide (like the Dungeon Master's Guide/Player Handbook of DnD) that would be easy to use as a reference or basis for starting new Roleplay Threads without a lot of time spent working out the details. When it is done, I or someone else will make a thread with the finished product and ask it be stickied. After that, anyone who wishes to use the system to make a new RPT would just be able to decide the setting, create a world and pick from the available list of rules and skills that are appropriate.


Edit: Regarding Weapon Focus skill. I am thinking it could actually be expanded to include all weapons and take the place of Marksmanship when used with appropriate ranged weapons.
Opinions?

I will try to work on short descriptions of setting styles for the rules part. For example High Fantasy where magic is everywhere, Low Fantasy where magic is low key or non existant, High Science-Fiction where you have everything from Star Trek to the Cultureverse or Low Sci-Fi where the setting is restricted to one or two solar systems and a "harder" set of physics.

[Woody]

I'm an administrator that can code. I was asking if there was something I could add to, or change about, the forums that would make things easier. I was just trying to help.

Guess I'll leave you all to it then.

[$tormin]

I don't think we need specialized board software or any other additions, when I discussed using the dice roller (which emails the roll to the player and the GM making it secure and fudge proof) it was shot down as being a bit constraining so I don't think that is a needed direction.
Developing special programs just for this system would also make it hard to use on other forums, which some might wish to do.

Edit: You won't believe how bad my shoes taste! I need to wash them more often!

[Rookie]

As a senior member of the RPT games (I started the original RPT) I have some things to add.

As an introduction and motivator for the more structured style:
When I originally started the "RPT thread" (now "The Warriors from Baldaris") we just kind of ran with it and let anybody do pretty much anything they wanted. This led to some problems. Characters started becoming demi-gods, plot holes were rampant, and fantasy became totally unbelievable. Even though it is the longest lasting RPT to date, it had many many fatal flaws, but served as a guide for the systems we've been constantly improving upon to reach better and better systems. It really works better when you give each character a set limit of things they can and cant do based on skill points. This eliminates the god-like characters and keeps every character within the same limits as the others.
The structured system brings more rhyme and reason. With the latest edition of a "dungeon master" it makes the game flow easier and drastically reduces the chances of "writers-block" that has been the bane of all other RPT. People simply ran out of ideas and were not able to move the plot along enough to keep people interested. The "game master" can step in and be an NPC so that the game doesn't always go the way a character wants it to, and if a hitch appears, the game master can step in and summarize what the characters will/did do and then put them in a situation more favorable to moving the plot along.
Overall it's a very effective system that through trial and error has been tweaked and played with to get a better system. As always, they are open to suggestion. They key is to have something that all the players will agree with: a favorable skill system, plot, setting, theme, etc. Without the favor of the players it cannot thrive. And with the structured system, it's easier to meet these needs with input.

That is my two bits that may be used as an introduction and persuasion for the structured system. I will have suggestions for things to add later. Let's keep up the good work guys.

[$tormin]

Some skills

Strength (1 pt): Greatly increased physical strength and durability. Able to take stronger hits without being disabled as well as be far more formidable in physical combat. ((All Settings))
Acrobatics (1 pt): Highly trained levels of agility. Useful for dodging blows, climbing walls, leaping between moving objects or anything else that a very agile person would be good at. ((All Settings))
Stealth (1 pt): Increased ability to use ones surroundings to avoid detection. ((All Settings))
Roguery (1 pt): Pickpocketing, shoplifting, breaking into houses or disabling an unaware person without undue harm. Also good for trap setting/springing and getting through locks. Stealth is not a requirement and must be purchased separately if wanted. ((All Settings))


Now, for weapons would it be worthwhile to make separate categories for firearms and medieval ranged weapons? I am trying to keep the number of skills low but honestly someone who can fire a gun does not necessarily have any ability to use a bow...

[jep'ray]

yeah that should be a seperate skill. A bow and crossbow have much diffrent mechanics that a rifle or pistol. then i guess heavy or crew serviced weapons have their own categories...so we get a quick shot/fast draw or a shoot from the hip ability, say walking around with a shotgun or SMG at waist height and being able to hit a target in that stance...

Vehicle driving experiance, driving a truck is diffrent from driving a car, and then an armored car or tank is again another level for experiance, being used to the weight of the vehicle, its stoping and turning abilitys, what kind of ground to expect trouble on...

[Slarethorn]

You could always make bows and crossbows into Exotic Weapons, and stick them under that category. Since the ranged norm for combatants in this setting is guns, the more medieval stuff will be few and far between, and so they become rare enough to be branded exotic. They also don't match the firing style or functionality of any other weapons, which also tends to be the description of an exotic weapon.

As for the Marksmanship/Weapon Focus merge, I like it. The skill then essentially gives Marksmanship benefits for ranged and Weapon Focus benefits for melee, without the fuss of different skills. A little buff could be added to the Marksmanship half to make it more appealing, but I can't think of much other than an improved ability to maintenance and reload your weapon. Bows and crossbows could greater power due to the user's own body being involved in the firing, but that can't really apply to firearms.

[Gumblackwood]

I agree with Slarethorn as to defining an exotic weapon as being rare and requiring different, and specific, training compared to normal weapons. That being said, there are some weapons that may migrate between exotic and mundane depending on the settings or even the whim of the GM. Have a weapons section, put just about anything in there, and allow for the person setting up the game to choose and add exotic weapons.

The points are virtually the same, but characters will be choosing say "guns" skill (1PT) or "BFG9000" skill (1PT)

[$tormin]

Ranged, Common (1 pt) Trained in the use of the settings common ranged weapons such as bows and spears for some settings, small firearms in more modern settings and hand lasers in futuristic periods. ((All Settings))

Ranged, Exotic (1 pt) Trained in the use of a specific uncommon weapon or crew serviced weapon. This includes non period weapons such as bows in modern time settings. Crew serviced weapons require at least one operator to have skill in the weapon type provided there has been time to give basic instruction to the other people assisting. ((All Settings))

[$tormin]

Rule: Counting your pennies.
Tracking exact amounts of money for several players as well as setting up values of items takes a lot of time, effort and will usually detract from a game if it becomes annoying. To bypass this, it can be assumed that each player has enough money at all times for basic needs, food shelter and essential commonly available equipment. There are exceptions to this, for example if the player has been robbed of all money and has not yet been able to get some.
Story permitting, if the players don't have money enough to carry on can be earned in about a week of world time which can be skipped through with a mention of any noteworthy events that happened while the player was working. Other schemes of obtaining funds should be allowed if they make sense in the situation, such as quickly getting money by robbing others or entering contests if available.
The Wealth skill allows the purchase of much more expensive items. An example of this would be in a Modern setting, someone with Wealth could purchase a car outright while someone else would not (adventurers have a hard time getting financing!) and would have to get transportation by another means.
Wealth is not just money outrightly available but skill in earning money. In the same amount of time after losing everything as anyone else, a character with Wealth will usually be back to their normal purchasing power.

[jep'ray]

so would a barganing ability be thrown in to help the buyer get the best for his money, i guess we could call it fast talk ability? maybe it would help in gathering intel on a mission? wanna try a jerryrigging ability, allowing a normaly impossible combination of parts to make something above your engneering level, but its jerryrigged, so theirs a good chance it will blow up in your face...the bigger and more complex the item the greater the chance of it back fireing...say you have some parts and decide to turn it into a toaster oven or a cannon...i guess its the Mac Guyver ability...i gots a paper clip, some gum and piece of paper...of course, lets make a nuclear bomb...

[$tormin]

Bargaining would be a pretty useless skill if it is assumed that you will have enough money for what you need. If you need more than the simple basics you could just get Wealth instead of any haggle skill.
For the McGuyver skill, try to think up on it and post a suggestion for it. Personally I think it would already be covered by Engineering.



Speechcraft (1 pt) You are more persuasive when speaking to others. Whether you wish to trick them into believing something, convince them to do something for you or wiggle a bit of information from an otherwise reticent individual. ((All Settings))

[$tormin]

Magic
I think magic should be a tier system split into several disciplines.

Destruction. Lighting, fireballs, pretty much anything that is pure damage output.

Enchantment. Imbuing objects with power. Bringing statues to life, putting spells into weapons/armor etc. Can be very useful in more of a support role.

Restoration. Healing magic.

Tier 1: Novice level. Limited ability in the line. Can only affect one person/object at a time.

Tier 2: Journeyman level. Fairly accomplished, in standard fantasy settings this would be the most common level. Can only affect a few people or objects at a time.

Tier 3: Master level. High level ability. Can affect many people/objects at a time. (not quite destroy armies with a word powerful though)

Tier 4: Legendary level. In nearly every case this would be NPC only. This level would allow massive destruction on a scale up to continental.

[Gumblackwood]

I think the bargaining idea works well within the Speechcraft skill set, I doubt it needs to be tied to wealth. Jerryrigging sounds more like a personality thing, only certain persons are going to attempt to do something beyond their skills frequently, especially when there's risk to life or limb. The "Luck" skill should probably make this safer, and might encourage more people to take it.

[$tormin]

That's a good point Gumbal, and it keeps from having to add another skill to the list. Win/Win :D


By the way, I need some feedback on the spell idea and some ideas of how to write them out.
Once we have the system mostly worked out, I will start a one shot RPT to test it, a very short one with only one adventure or straightforward mission, like a rescue operation or a dungeon crawl.

[Soria]

What about summoning $tormin? Or am I just being silly?

[$tormin]

I didn't think about summoning. Can it be powerful enough to be its own skill or should it be a part of Enchantment?

[Soria]

In my opinion yes.. I mean base level you get your minor elementals ( Earth wind, water, fire), minor cirtters ( rodents small birds), midrange stronger elemental ( stronger base four, plus light and dark),stronger critters ( like wolves, small bird of prey) minor monsters. Top level you have your strongest elements ( strongest base four, strongest light and dark plus the physic and/or mental elemental, make major ouchies.) major critters ( Bears, large hoofed animals, even a mount) major monsters ( such as dragons) and demons ( minor of ones of course, may cause nose bleeds and over crap in summoning.)


You can Nercomancy if you want, its not a major one.

[$tormin]

I think summoning would need something added to flesh it out. Maybe adding Trasmutation or Creation?
For summoning by level how about
1. Trainee. Weak creature only. A minor imp or man sized non combat creature (can be used as a servant or porter)
2. Standard. Can summon one to three creatures of about the same combat effectiveness of a standard human combatant.
3. Master. Can summon more human strength creatures or a big bad creature.
4. God or act of Plot. Can summon the entire plane of counter-creation or an antimatter star inhabited by the gods of unspeakable power. AKA never let the players get this ;P

[Soria]

Whatever works for you $tormin' :D

[$tormin]

Actually I would prefer to have some opinions on it because what works for me might not work for anyone else who wants to use the system.

[Soria]

Trasmutation, not sure... fark, I with I keep my notes I had on schools of magic. Creation... like golem building?

[$tormin]

Transmutation as magically changing one object into another, like the DnD spell Stone to Mud. It would be different from enchanting since it isn't imbuing the item with any power.
Creation would probably be a third level plus part of it since I was thinking along the lines of something from nothing. Having lower level of it would be hard to balance considering how clever some people can be.

Maybe have
Destruction
Enchantment/Creation
Summoning/Transmutation
Restoration/Necromancy

[Soria]

It works for me.... we're having this conversation by ourselves though...

[jep'ray]

hmm, transmutation runs into the laws of Alchemy or the rules of Equivalent trade. In order to gain something, one must present something of equal value. because transmutation can get outa control unless you can keep it in check. "no that rock canNOT become a thermo-nuclear hand grenade, no matter how you phrase it..."a metal object like a steel bar can become a sword, thats the same thing, just a diffrent shape, a steel bar can not become a bar of gold. its not an even trade...turn a piece of metal armor into a metal spear, but not into an aircraft carrier...

Summoner: should summon out worldly creatures, demons or apperations, the Enchanter/beast master? is the critter summoner. From a swarm of bees or hornets to a tiger or pack of dogs. master enchanters should be able to control people, i think for at least a limited amount of time.

having a summoner cast a spirit warrior, it can hurt you but you cant touch it, would be a nifty trick for a master summoner. for a low level, then yeah, small imps or demons, ghost to scout things out, of zip into a treasure chest to see if its a trap...then theres the whole final fantasy thing, summoning a giant Aeon, or demon or spirt thing...level everyone on the battle field, but then its gone and cant come back till the summoner has regained his or her strength...limited cast time, high energy drain will help stop them from becoming too strong... but a summor should hit just as hard with its type of magic as a Elemental caster...the stone golem that the summoner just cast wil hit just as hard as a fire ball or lightning strike, just a diffrent form of magic really...

[$tormin]

then theres the whole final fantasy thing, summoning a giant Aeon, or demon or spirt thing...level everyone on the battle field, but then its gone and cant come back till the summoner has regained his or her strength...


I would also rule that you would have to be on very good terms with such a creature or you have to pay it for its time and energy spent ;P
That could be an interesting power limiter too, for intelligent or powerful summonings you have to either be strong enough to force them to do what you want, be on good enough terms that they will do it as a favor or you have to buy their services (A demon lord might want you to start a cult or build a temple that will sacrifice to him for example)

[jep'ray]

lol, summon a greater demon...it is alot smarter than you and you cant control it...lol...picture the demon sitting back in a chair, your getting him coffee while the rest of you team fights on with out you or him...

[$tormin]

If you read the Belgariad, it would be like the Morrands who summon demons to fight one another but such creatures can easily slip their bounds if the caster isn't powerful enough or they make a mistake. By casting something far stronger then themselves, they have to put down a pentagram and stay in it and completely concentrate on keeping the demon bound, taking the caster himself out of the fight.

[Gumblackwood]

With some things, like magic abilities, it might be worth discussing in the accompanying OOC thread to any individual storyline the individual's specific boundaries. Several settings are likely to only allow training in subsets of any magic field and others may give a free basic level in all fields for someone trained further in one.

[$tormin]

The first part of creating a RPT is choosing or creating a world.
Picking a pre made one can make several parts of starting the story much easier but there are drawbacks as well. You don't have to make maps or invent funny sounding names or create a reason the Dwarf King of the floating islands hates the Elf Queen of the interplanetary space tree or other such stuff.
The easiest source is to take something from popular fiction. If you wanted to create a superhero RPT you could just declare it takes place in the Marvel universe and other than story specifics most people who are playing will already know quite a bit about the world. Problems exist though. For example, the creator of the game HAS to pretty much know the lore inside and out if they hope to keep everything consistent.
Another problem is that unless the story is far beyond the settings usual "power" there is the risk of having to deal with players deciding to get help from established universe characters. In the Forgotten Realms the story is about an Orc invasion, but suddenly the players decide that things are getting tough and its time to call in Drizzit and there's no real reason he wouldn't actually help according to his character as established in the published works.


More coming later and I really have to clean that up but I had to write it down.

[jep'ray]

so what kinda RP story should we start next anyways? if anyones feeling sci-fi'ish i'll try to think one up...

[Soria]

I'm kinda in the mood for deep space stuff to...

[jep'ray]

lord knows i have enough spaceships floating in my head...i kinda have a world for them all to float in, just hashing out the details...let me see what i can spin into a coherant storyline...this might take some time...

[$tormin]

Yeah, I could do with a Sci-Fi RPT. Oddly enough I have a craving for a REALLY cornball one, like something from the 50's B movies :D

[jep'ray]

lol...god...let me mull over it...something" Mars Attacks "huh?...well my ships are way to advanced to look 50's...i'll work on a plot line...

[$tormin]

If you are starting it, you decide the setting. I'll help out building the universe if you want. I am more of a sci-fi person than fantasy really despite the style of RPTs I have tried to run so far.

[jep'ray]

K, will be throwing ideals and pictures at you...

[$tormin]

Looking forward to it. Any clue on what style of Sci Fi you are planning? Hard, space opera, squishy (star trek)?

[jep'ray]

squishy? lol never heard the trek put that way before...not sure, but i think we start a new thread for this plan...

[$tormin]

Go ahead and start an OOC/Signup thread whenever you are ready. Its best if the person running the RPT has first post in the OOC thread so they can edit it to add new players and such.

[jep'ray]

one post in front of the other $tormin, lets but heads in the planning commission office... and see what falls out... then the sign up sheet...then we take over the world! Muha ahhahaha...

[$tormin]

Well I'm going to try to get going on this again.

Current skill list:

Combat:
Demolitions (1pt): Allows the safe handling and mixing of unstable chemical or magical ingredients into controlled explosives, rockets, grenades and bombs. Includes some structural knowledge to assist with placement and detonation. Anyone can carry and throw grenades or bombs, but the safety issues keep most from doing so.

Weapon Focus (specific): Improved skill with weapon of choice. When wielding this weapon, the user is able to strike with more speed and power than someone who is not focused in its use. The wielder can also defend more effectively as well, improving the user's ability to defend against similar attacks. They are also more difficult to disarm. Prereq.: Weapon Skill (specific).

Ranged, Common (1 pt) Trained in the use of the settings common ranged weapons such as bows and spears for some settings, small firearms in more modern settings and hand lasers in futuristic periods. ((All Settings))

Ranged, Exotic (1 pt) Trained in the use of a specific uncommon weapon or crew serviced weapon. This includes non period weapons such as bows in modern time settings. Crew serviced weapons require at least one operator to have skill in the weapon type provided there has been time to give basic instruction to the other people assisting. ((All Settings))



Non Combat:
Speechcraft (1 pt) You are more persuasive when speaking to others. Whether you wish to trick them into believing something, convince them to do something for you or wiggle a bit of information from an otherwise reticent individual. ((All Settings))

Animal Handling (1 pt): Able to deal with out of control, untrained or poorly trained animals. Allows training of non-magical animals within reason. Some animals are inherently untrainable. ((Nearly All Settings))

Jack of Trades (2 pt): Can pick 3 Tier 1 skills with a 1 point cost and perform them to a slightly lesser ability than another who paid full price. ((Nearly All Settings))

Clockwork Engineering 1 (1 pt): Allows the repair, design and construction of simple clockwork or steampunk vehicles or creations. Higher skill allows more complex workings. ((Steampunk or Fantasy Settings))

Strength (1 pt): Greatly increased physical strength and durability. Able to take stronger hits without being disabled as well as be far more formidable in physical combat. ((All Settings))

Acrobatics (1 pt): Highly trained levels of agility. Useful for dodging blows, climbing walls, leaping between moving objects or anything else that a very agile person would be good at. ((All Settings))

Stealth (1 pt): Increased ability to use ones surroundings to avoid detection. ((All Settings))

Roguery (1 pt): Pickpocketing, shoplifting, breaking into houses or disabling an unaware person without undue harm. Also good for trap setting/springing and getting through locks. Stealth is not a requirement and must be purchased separately if wanted. ((All Settings))

Wealth (1 pt): Greater ability to earn money or far better than normal starting money and equipment. ((All Settings))

[Gumblackwood]

Here's my thoughts on free skills. I think that this fits in well with the type of setup we've been using:

Free Skills

Free skills are essentially the basic abilities inherent in player characters or non-player characters that can be assumed unless otherwise specified. These may be basic skills, racial skills or setting skills. Basic skills are things like reading, writing, speaking, understanding language, picking up and throwing items, hygeine, tieing shoes, etc. Racial skills are skills that are either inherent and available only to given races or are given free to those of a certain race when they would otherwise cost points. An example of this is the inherent Strength skill given to Flesh Construct characters and NPCs in the current Steampunk RPT. Setting Skills are survival skills inherent to a given setting, say the ability to drive a car in a modern setting or the ability to set up a wilderness camp in a fantasy or apocalyptic setting. Basic skills probably need no mention in the setup of a RPT, whereas Racial and Setting skills will likely be mentioned in the OOC thread ahead of the start.

Note: It may be a player's roleplaying choice to give their character a handicap, making it so that certain free skills are not available to them, but that does not mean that they get some additional skill in return. For example, Johnny having debilitating halitosis and a squeaky wheel instead of a right foot doesn't mean he gets 7 skill points instead of 5, it just means he's harder to deal with in a hallway.

[$tormin]

Awesome posts in here and the settings thread. I was going to do that but you did it far better than I could have.

Here's how I think the final guide will be set up
Chapter:
1. Intro
2. Gameplay info (rules, gameplay tips etc.)
3. Skills
4. RPT creation (settings info etc)
5. FAQ


Any suggestions for chapter additions?

[Slarethorn]

All I can think of is possibly swapping the order of Skills and RPT Creation. That way, the guide gradually narrows down the further you read, becoming more and more specific.

[$tormin]

New skills

Photographic Memory (1pt): Can perfectly recall nearly anything that this person has seen. In game mechanics terms, the player can PM the game master about a specific detail not mentioned in a scene long after that event happened. For example, the player can recall whether or not a particular book not noticed before was visible in the library that an earlier meeting took place in. ((All Settings))


Languages (1pt): Gained ability to speak one or more languages in addition to the base languages set by the game master. Game master can set a limit to how many extra languages each purchase of this ability gives and whether or not it allows reading/writing. ((All Settings))