PROTEST: Help Stop The Lords of Everquest Pop-Up Madness

[Kaolian]

There is a disturbing phenomenon occurring on the Everquest servers. It began with Legacy of Yheska. Pop up ads, appearing during log in. The citizens of Norrath found this to be an annoyance, but we collectively shrugged, assuming that Sony would realize those ads interfere with our gameplay and remove them. Eventually they did, and we gave it no more thought.

Our complacence was a mistake.

Today we see a new breed of pop up. It appears during log in. when switching characters. Even in game, where we pay for recreation, it assails us with systemwide messages. The Lords of Everquest spam is everywhere, and there seems to be no end in sight.

No more.

We have this chance, this one chance to stop this evil from spreading. Citizens of Norrath! Join me in taking a stand against these marketing tactics, and together, we can show Sony that we WILL NOT STAND FOR IT!!!! This is not a balancing issue that most classes of the world can choose to ignore! Like it or not, this is your game. Will you chose to act? Or stand idly by, forever wondering if you could have made a difference as pop up after pop up interrupts your gaming experience?

You can make a difference!

On Wednesday, December 10th 2003 at 8pm eastern, 6pm central, and 4pm pacific time, join your fellow players in a serverwide revolt against the pop-ups and in game spam. There are three ways you can help.

1. I will be hosting a mass protest on the Bertoxxulous server in the Plane of Knowledge next to the Nexus stone on December 10th 2003 at 8pm eastern, 6pm central, and 4pm pacific time. You are invited and encouraged to create a new character (or bring an existing one!) and join in. The more people we have there, the stronger our position will be. Once we are gathered there, we will proceed to phase 2.

2. Even if you can’t make the protest on Bertoxxulous, you can help with this phase. At precisely 8:15 eastern, 6:15 Central and 4:15 pacific time, all protest participants will be asked to /feedback the following text:

“I hereby submit this petition in protest of the Lords of Everquest pop up advertisements and in-game spam. Consider this petition notification that I will not even consider buying Lords of Everquest until the ads are completely removed from Everquest. Thank you”

If you like, please feel free to add: “p.s. Kaolian sends his regards”
3. The third and final phase of this protest will be the e-mail campaign. Please send a short message to eqmail@soe.sony.com asking them to remove the pop ups. Please, do not spam them with multiple messages, the goal here is to show them that we will not be ignored, not to knock them off line with a denial of service attack.

We will be coordinating the protest from this thread at Allakhazams:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1070887539773572461
Please check back for updated information as it becomes available

Together, we can reclaim the magic that was Everquest from the hands of corporate greed. Viva la Resistance!!!!!!

Kaolian Drachensborn – an Irate player.

Woody Edit: Like I've said before /petition is NOT the way to rebel.

[Lirren]

As much as I detest the LoE spam, I really dislike the idea of /petitioning in protest. All that's going to accomplish is that the poor guides who are trying to help people are suddenly going to get hundreds of spam petitions, making them incapable of helping the people that need it. A much better idea is the email campaign. I'd happily help with that, and let the SoE staff wade through the piles of complaints, rather than the unpaid volunteers who are just trying to help and can't do anything to change the advertising anyway.

[rillaith]

Seconded - use /feedback, not /petition. For one, it goes straight to SoE, it's not fielded by unaffiliated volunteers who are just regular players like you or I. For two, it doesn't effectively act as a DoS attack on the poor guides. For three, it doesn't fill the bugs list such that the real bugs get missed (as it would if you used /bug).

[TalonNYC]

Interestingly enough, the "Everquest Companion" book has chapters devoted to how important community is to the game and its survival. Let's see if they'll put their money where their mouth is.

I concur on the /feedback, otherwise some poor little Guide's PC is gonna explode.

{edit} e-mail has been sent {/edit}

[Kaylen]

Little Timmy petitions, 'Help! I'm stuck in a well!'
Guide Lassie responds, 'Don't worry Timmy, I'll be right d-*is spammed by hundreds of /petitions complaining about SOE's spam* MOTHER OF GOD IT BURNS
*five hours later*
Little Timmy petitions, 'help'

I already sent an e-mail and /feedback, but am not doing more than that.

[Dreleen]

LOL Kaylen!


/tosses Little Timmy a rope

[Cerrena]

Little Timmy petitions, 'Help! I'm stuck in a well!'

When he was a fairly new player, my husband once had to petition because he was stuck at the bottom of a well. (He was swimming and fell out of the bottom of the water) A bunch of more senior players co-ordinated a rescue mission before the guide got there but it would have been really annoying to have the message lost in a flood of petitions.

Send /feedback not petitions.

[Minwee]

There is a more effective means of protest which you can access through the "Account" window during the login process.

Want to show how you feel about what's happening in EQ? Don't sit around the plane of knowledge singing songs, cancel your account. Send SoE an email explaining exactly WHY you did it, and why you won't be giving them another penny until they fix things, apologize for screwing up, and promise never to do it again. A solemn vow that monkeys will fly out of their butts would be nice, but let's not push it.

Of course, after about two hours of going cold cockatrice I'm sure you would all begin to get the shakes and start licking the install CDs hoping for a fix. It might be interesting to move en masse to a different game, call it "Ever-Methadone", and stage your protest from there.

I hear Rubies of Eventide (http://www.rubiesofeventide.com/) is back again, and you can play ten days for free. Roasting marshmellows over the nexus stone won't get quite the same kind of attention as tripling the online population of a competing game would.

But don't listen to me, I live in a dream world.

[Kaylen]

That's a pretty damn good idea. My EQ account is currently cancelled, anyway.. Hm.

[Tenolein]

I would love to cancel my account. I really would. But when I get to the screen that asks if I'm sure I want to, I just can't click on the 'Yes' button. I just can't bring myself to do it.

So, I e-mail and /feedback'd.

[Sarius]

i didnt cancel my account, its done it itself 0_o the credit card is fine etc, its just been cancelled. Must have detected i was playing FFXI and done it for me.

[Dark Tyger]

There is a more effective means of protest which you can access through the "Account" window during the login process.

Want to show how you feel about what's happening in EQ? Don't sit around the plane of knowledge singing songs, cancel your account.

Hey, great idea! Except, oh, wait, I actually like the game still and the ads, while annoying, aren't bad enough for me to give up something I enjoy...

[Naelaen]

You're only problem is advertising like this comes from the money makers higher up than the people that you would be /feedbacking to.

It'll all be over on January 4th anyway since that's when the offer ends (fingers/paws/claws crossed) :)

[Serresrelic]

I'll happily participate in the /feedback and email campaign. But as everyone else has stated before - no /petitions!!!

[Kudane]

I am with you woody, Kaolin has this same post on EQInterface, and while I didnt change his post, (maybe I should have) I did point out that abusing the /petition feature could have dire results..

/feedback is a MUCH better way to go!

[Minwee]

Hey, great idea! Except, oh, wait, I actually like the game still and the ads, while annoying, aren't bad enough for me to give up something I enjoy...


So keep playing. Just don't throw around phrases like "No more", "We will not stand for it" and "The line must be drawn -- Here! And no further!" which Kaolin was using (Okay, only two of them. But that was a pretty cool movie) if you don't really have a problem with it.

[Mor`gruth]

Little Timmy petitions, 'Help! I'm stuck in a well!'
Guide Lassie responds, 'Don't worry Timmy, I'll be right d-*is spammed by hundreds of /petitions complaining about SOE's spam* MOTHER OF GOD IT BURNS
*five hours later*
Little Timmy petitions, 'help'

I already sent an e-mail and /feedback, but am not doing more than that.

Having been in Lassies furry shoes before...

Dear god, that his hilarious. I'm putting that in my sig.

[Dark Tyger]

Minwee, "having a problem with it" doesnt necissarily mean that that "problem with it" is big enough to quit over. There are shades of grey in the real world, you realize...

[Minwee]

Just be clear about the message you're sending. The people who make these kinds of decisions don't care about how many messages are in the /feedback queue, they don't care how many warriors are wearing their armour or what zone they are standing in, they care how much money they receive at the end of each month. That's all. From far enough away all of your shades of gray turn into numbers on a balance sheet.

If you and a hundred of your friends log in to the game and shout "I am not going to take this any more! Stop it right now!", then you are sending a very clear message to the people who are ultimately in charge:

"Nobody seems to mind the ads. In fact, everybody's talking about it and revenues are growing steadily."

Do whatever you want. Play what you want to play how you want to play it. I'm not trying to stop you. I'm just saying that nothing short of impacting the bottom line is going to make SoE as an organization care about anything other than their bottom line.

[xariyl]

Just out of curiosity, maybe any marketing directors out there (not working for SoE, that is) could answer this question: Do pop-up ads EVER work?

Personally, when I'm web browsing, I can't close the damn things fast enough. It's almost a game to see if I can close the window before the actual advertisement comes up; and if I do happen to see what it is, I make a quick decision not to trust anything they have to offer. So no money from me.

When the in-game pop-up add appeared in game, I clicked the "No Thanks" button, and... go figure... I actually meant it. The second time it popped up was annoying. By the fifth time, it got to be insulting. Then the in-game spam started. I can handle a note in the MOTD... I can see it every time I log and if I want to I can check out whatever they're selling in my own time. But when I saw the third serverwide spam message I had already made up my mind that I want absolutely NOTHING to do with LoE, and I wouldn't play the damn game if they were giving it away.

I enjoy Everquest, and I am looking forward to EQ2, but I will not be bullied into buying something I don't want and very simply would not use. I saw the advertisements, I read the reviews, I read the game descriptions, and I decided that LoE was not for me. That's it... a simple, polite "no thanks", it's just not for me. Now, though, with advertisement in a method I can't stand for a game I don't want, it's gone beyond "not for me". I actively despise LoE. Those messages don't pop up after clicking the "Agree" button, because your account becomes flagged with YES. Is it so damn difficult to do the same thing when I very honestly and politely click "No Thanks"?

Whoever the assbackwards monkey-brained neanderthall on Sony's marketing team that decided pop up ads were a good idea needs to be fired.

X

[Quartz]

Heehee... Venril Sathir doesn't get this problem :->

[Dununder]

Shamlessly stolen from the Warrior Standdown. However, that seemed to have worked in a way, so why not this? Im always up for civil disobedience in game or in RL. Good luck.

Dununder Thunderchunder
Ogre Warlord

[Dark Tyger]

The warrior stand-down had nothing to do with the melee changes that are going in. Those changes are NOT something that could have been planned out in the time since they began organizing the warrior protest...

[Renix]

The warrior stand-down had nothing to do with the melee changes that are going in. Those changes are NOT something that could have been planned out in the time since they began organizing the warrior protest...

From my limited time in browsing various warrior forums, the idea of endurance/discipline changes and new abilities have been tossed around long before the idea of a stand-down was ever posted.

I'm guessing that sony went with the most reasonable melee change idea(s).

[Nosferatu]

Kudane, he posted on Everlore as well. Unfortunately, I'm not so nice to people who register for one reason and that's to spam message boards.

Yes, I flamed him up one side and down the other. These people need to learn that their reckless unthinking makes play time worse for others just because they use the 'muscle' in their head.

I have no problem with campaigns to get people to /feedback and/or send e-mail. That's fine. But to agressively go around to message boards just to beg people to /petition AND cause problems is just too much for me.

I won't repeat what I said on Everlore, mainly because Woody would have no choice but to edit/ban me. And I wouldn't blame him. He's lucky that he's got very intelligent and well rounded people here on these forums who know wrong from right.

I think it helps that these forumites (meant lovingly folks, seriously) have people such as Woody, Kudane, Answer Panda, Absor, Denmother, etc. that come here regularly (or as regular as their schedule allows). You've taught these folks how to "protest" properly, and to use to think before acting.

Bah, now I'm rambling. I /salute all of you for knowing right from wrong in this situation. And have utmost confidence you will continue to do the right thing.

[Kaylen]

Now, I'm a little ticked off. In response to my e-mail, I got a generic, humanless form letter, which ended with this:

Don't forget to order your copy of Lords of EverQuest. SOE's first RTS
game based off the popular MMORPG EverQuest! Order now, register LOE on
your existing EverQuest account and you will receive a free 30 days on
your EverQuest account, along with a invitation to the EQ2 Beta.

https://store.station.sony.com/express/loe/index.jsp

[Iiliani Seadream]

/cry

They aren't listening to us :(

*sniffle*

[Kaolian]

Kudane, he posted on Everlore as well. Unfortunately, I'm not so nice to people who register for one reason and that's to spam message boards.

Yes, I flamed him up one side and down the other. These people need to learn that their reckless unthinking makes play time worse for others just because they use the 'muscle' in their head.


I apologize if you view my single post there as spam. It was meant as a public service announcement, no more. I figured the posters at everlore would be durable enough to view a single, isolated post without spontaniously combusting. You disagree with my methods? Fine, I can deal with that, in fact if you notice in the original thread I posted at Allakhazams, I encourage disagreement if for no other reason than it will allow people to see both sides of the issue before deciding if they want to take part.

Yes, you crafted a flame from behind your Moderator shield. Good for you. Posting on another board entirely to boast of your flaming prowess is a major faux pas, especially when the intended target is hampered by the fact that a suitable reply would most likely goad the aforementioned moderator into doing something regrettable.

Edit: toned down by popular request. Though I doubt I will see anything reciporical above.

As an aside, to those of you who have taken the time to state your oppinions in a reasonable, non-insulting manner, I thank you. Even those of you who disagree with me, and privatly think me an idiot. Somewhere, someone is reading this thread. Maybe your oppinion will be the one to sway them one way or the other, as ranting and swearing about things surely will not. I encourage you all to continue to discuss this so that those who are yet to come may see this and choose based on a well thought out argument rather than the mad ravings of an isolated ranger.

Thank you for your time.
Kaolian

[Kaylen]

Well, seeing as how you actually came back and read responses to your thread, I don't consider it mindless "go to all EQ forums and post this" spam.

However.. the methods you're promoting won't get results. Not that I know what will.. and as has been said, will just end up causing guides to leap off of cliffs in droves.

Nosferatu may have a "moderator shield" at Everlore, but here everyone has a shield from senseless flaming - including Nosferatu. So I would suggest you don't let that get out of hand. Woody being out of town is definitely not the time to tempt the ban stick.

[Majaya]

Just a short Question, how do I get rid of the preorder if I accidentially clicked yes? :oops:

Thanks in advance,
Majaya

[Kaolian]

As I am a guest here, I intend to not let it get out of hand. Actually, despite the fact that doing so is usually regarded as a defeat in the dance of the flame, I intend to ignore Nosferatu's response entirely and concede the argument. The important thing is not how witty or witless a response I can make to ol' Nosy there, but the ad spam, and that is what this thread is about. Anything else just detracts from the issue.

[Kaylen]

I'm pretty sure you'd have to call (or do the live chat thing) Sony customer services..

This (http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp) page should help you out with that. When their live support opens, you can click the link for the live chat.

And, if you're going to take that stance, Kaolian.. I suggest you edit out the parts concerning Everlore and Nosferatu in your previous post.

[Lirren]

I agree with Kaylen. Especially considering that Nos is a part of this community and you are not.

[Kaolian]

Alright, I toned it down somewhat in the interest of interforum relations. I stand by my statement that his post bragging about things occuring on other forums was in poor taste though.

[Naelaen]

I didn't see any bragging, just his opinion.

[Nemishan]

Just a short Question, how do I get rid of the preorder if I accidentially clicked yes? :oops:

Thanks in advance,
Majaya

Go to https://store.station.sony.com/my_account.jsp, log in, and then click billing. towards the bottom it will show any preorders that you have, where you can then cancel the preorder. Hope this helps,
Nemishan.

[TalonNYC]

Oh. My. God!

I sent a protest e-mail to the address quoted earlier in this thread.

As expected, I got a "canned" response from an auto-reply.

In the response was. . .

Wait for it. . .

AN ADD FOR LORDS OF EVERQUEST!

{stream of obscenities goes here}

[Mutton]

I agree with Kaylen. Especially considering that Nos is a part of this community and you are not.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but pause and ponder the implied meanings of such a post. I almost find such a comment offensive.

Rather then derail the topic at hand into a discussion of flame rights, I'm just going to leave this thread by saying SoE is wrong for their blatant advertising but the sad thing is there is nothing we can do short of a complete boycott to send the message to sony. You are in their world.

[Nosferatu]

Kaolin, I neither "bragged" as you see fit to call it, nor hid behind a "shield". I felt like informing them of what occurred on Everlore, as it's no secret that I moderate there.

As for my "shield" on Everlore...there's no such thing. Your imagination runs wild. You are free to return to Everlore and try to dispute your position. As you have seen, I've neither banned you nor editted your post. Why you think I hid behind anything is a mystery to me.

I will give you credit, though, as I did on Everlore. You seem to be showing quite the intelligence, however it's a shame about the lack of common sense. (yep, see that, I couldn't with hold it).

I call it as I see it. Sure, you can say (paraphrased) "that others feel the same" as I do, but just keep quiet. I call that "adding to the problem". And so do you. Keeping quiet is all about what you want to change, right? Well, that's what I'm doing.

Luckily, I don't need to repost my arguments against this here, because the people here understand that /petition is not to be used in the methods you advocate. It's utterly plain and simple to see, and I'm not sure why you don't.

[Dark Tyger]

I will add my support (belated) to Woody's edit to the original post. Spamming /petitions will NOT get anything positive done. The ONLY think it will accomplish is to slow down responses for people who have REAL problems that they need CS help with.

Unfortunately, it's probably too late now to stem off the petition spam that will result. Frankly, I think anyone who organizes and promotes a /petition spamming campaign should be banned from the game.

[Tenolein]

I will add my support (belated) to Woody's edit to the original post. Spamming /petitions will NOT get anything positive done. The ONLY think it will accomplish is to slow down responses for people who have REAL problems that they need CS help with.

Unfortunately, it's probably too late now to stem off the petition spam that will result. Frankly, I think anyone who organizes and promotes a /petition spamming campaign should be banned from the game.

-=nods=-

I agree 158%.

[Kaolian]

UPDATE:

Victory.

As of at least this morning, the Pop up ad and ingame spam has ceased on all servers. Coincidence? Maybe. Regardless, Sony has acceded to the wishes of the bulk of the players, making our protest somewhat redundant. Therefore, I am calling off the controversial /petition and e-mail campaign. I will still be present in the PoK if anyone wishes to stop by for a victory celebration. Thank you all for your support, and another thanks to those that critiqued the idea for furthering the dialogue.

Roma Victor!!!!!!

[Naelaen]

I reckon it's coincidence :)

[TalonNYC]

It wasn't a money matter, after all they don't have to pay for advertising in their own games.

It wasn't smart thinking, after all, they autoreplied to my request to speak to a Public Relations staffer with not one, but TWO ads for Lords of Everquest.

*sigh*

I know I wasn't the only journalist demanding answers on this one, I can only hope that Sony bowed to the pressure from both the press and the players and gave up the fight.

[Serresrelic]

KILL THE POPUPS!!! (http://www2.b3ta.com/realistic-internet-simulator/)

[Woody]

Serresrelic, that uh, doesn't really have much to do with this thread... does it?

[Serresrelic]

/sigh

I suppose not. It seemed relevent to me on some sub-consious level of humor, but then again I do tend to be a little "off" sometimes.

[Woody]

**gives Serresrelic a doughnut and gets the thread back on topic**

[Quartz]

*looks at the empty end of a solved thread*

*ponders if he can flog it as used Spiderling silk*

[Twyll Oathtaker]

My favorite getting stuck moment had to of been when I jumped down off the wall in HPH by the guard who takes the orc scalps and got stuck. I was stuck in fact I had to have a gm summon me.

[Celtique]

First let me say I completely agree with the majority of you. SOE's recent spamming of systemwide messages and constant pop up issues are enough to make anyone reconsider why they play the game. I can't imagine why "they" actually regarded this as a successful way to advertise. Sure, everyone and their monkie's uncle knows about LoE, but I don't see anyone rushing to pre-order now.

This is one of the times I'm really thankful to be on the Saryrn server. I also had the pop-up at login, and noticed when the switched the buttons at the bottom of the box. One word...lame. However not once on Saryrn, at least to my knowledge, was there ever a system wide spam message. Never. As a matter of fact other than the pop-up I recieved no other advertisement for LoE. *cheer* Perhaps because Saryrn is not a "top server?" Who knows.

Despite my luck, I will never consider buying LoE. After seeing their dirty tactics on the other servers...I remain unimpressed.

The pop-up add is gone now and has been for a while, much to my relief. My sympathies to those of you that had to deal with in-game spam.

[Kat]

The "button switching" thing was the first time I ever called someone or something a sneaky little bastard and actually meant it.

I distinctly remember hovering over the button that I had been clicking NO to in some sort of Pavlovian responce since they started the adds and I stopped for a second because something in my brain said, "Hey. . . thats not the same shape or length of text. What does it say?"

That actually pissed me off.

[Kaylen]

As far as I know, "system wide" messages go to all servers, so it is likely you were just never on for one.

But I could be wrong.

[Dark Tyger]

However not once on Saryrn, at least to my knowledge, was there ever a system wide spam message. Never. As a matter of fact other than the pop-up I recieved no other advertisement for LoE. *cheer* Perhaps because Saryrn is not a "top server?" Who knows.


The system-wide broadcasts go to ALL servers at once. They weren't all that frequent, I think only a few times a day over a period of 2 or 3 days. It was more of a last straw thing than a big problem in itself, really. It it weren't for the pop-ups on log in repeatedly, patch message, tags on email, etc, etc in addition to the broadcast, I would have ignored them ( I don't see how broadcasts seriously interrupt gameplay ).

[TalonNYC]

Can someone say "Losing cash hand over fist on a development project that wasn't the best idea from the start?"

That's the level of desperation that SoE was broadcasting with every one of those messages and dirty trix.

[Celtique]

Ha. That's right...system wide messages really ARE system wide aren't they? *blonde look* :oops:

I think I meant server wide, but the messages were system wide, so that wouldn't work either. I guess I was just lucky enough to have not logged in when they were sent.

At any rate, glad they're gone.