WoW Trade Skills

[Grey_Bishop]

WoW Trade Skills (http://www.blizzard.com/wow/townhall/tradeskills.shtml)

This actually looks good to me, especially the no-failing part.

[Naelaen]

Hehe, there's a certain satisfaction when you finally get a combine to work in EverQuest.... but that might just be a release of frustration after failing the last 10 times :D

[Iiliani Seadream]

I haven't failed one single combine for the EQ Coldain Prayer Shawl quest yet. (Just completed number 4).
You know it's saving them all up for the important ones....
;)

[Satarus]

Well i like the no fail part, but I would imagine they would have a skill restricted combine system in place so you actually have to skill up to make items. Sounds like they trade the system where you can make the item at any skill level, but with a chance to fail, to you need a certain skill level to combine the items.

[Tadashya]

Recipes will work every time. If you collect the proper ingredients to create an item, you don't have to worry about them being wasted due to failures. There's also no need to constantly experiment in World of Warcraft to find a combination of ingredients that will work. A recipe clearly lists what it will allow you to create and what raw materials are required. There's no guesswork (or surfing through dozens of Web sites) involved…

wow that's about as subtle as a brick to the head :D Might as well just tack on .. "like other MMORPG's so.. nyah!" :wink:

It would be interesting to see how that helps make the game economy though. Is there a tradeskilling class? Perhaps you arent even allowed to try making an item 'early'. Hmm... from a roleplayers standpoint that's interesting too. I have been and always will be an EQ tradeskill nut... but I'd like to see how other games handle it.

[Catila Amano]

Or "like certain other MMORPG's..." Can't imagine what MMORPG they were referring to (without actually referring to it) in the above quote. ;)

[Rhiamon Fatesealer]

Hmm I think that you should have the ability to fail tradeskills. Your skill level should reduce this chance, but the chance should always be there. In SWG, I am a master tailor. As a novice, I should have had a much higher failure rate, that gradually tapered off to virtually never (but still fail on rare occassions) when I hit master. That's not how it actually worked, but that's how I THINK it should work ;)

[Satarus]

Well I know I worked my tailoring and brewing up for my ring quests, and I spent about 200pp for the blanket components, and then failed on the combine (was almost trivial) and i was really frustrated cause i had to spend another 200pp on it. Later i tried the combine for the tainted avelanche ale being a bit under trivial (192+5% on a 248 trivial) and failed and had to spend an hour in FM just farming the salts so i can have a rogue do a subcombine. I don't know how pissed i would have been if the GM tailor i comisioned would have failed on the velium mastadoon fur cape after i spent 1k on some of the components, and spending about 2 hours hunting mastadoons in WW.
I think that after you have the skill, you shouldn't fail it.

[Kinarie]

I like how DAOC does it. You buy just about everything from a merchant, and you know all your recipies. But you can't make it if your skill isn't high enough; it won't even let you try or have the recipe. If you fail on a high skill item, then sometimes you lose components (but not always). When you get high enough skill level over the skill required to make the item, you make it every time.

And all you have to do is have the stuff in your inventory; NO CLICK FEST!!!

[Luckton]

I think the no-fail thing just shows Bliz's concept of trying to make WoW (gasp! :shock: ) fun. If I had to travel around and find a bunch of ingrediants to make the item I wanted only to fail at making that item, I'd be pretty ticked.

I just really think that they aren't trying to make the game as realistic as possible...they're trying to make it as fun as possible. Afterall, it IS a game :wink:

[Satsujinken]

Hmm, looks like there will be a bit of inter-dependability with other crafters to advance high enough, sorta like SWG there. Sounds interesting though, I'm a Lgm Wc in Daoc, and that was a slow and boring process. Maybee SWG will be more intersting.

[Toktuk]

I think the no-fail thing just shows Bliz's concept of trying to make WoW (gasp! :shock: ) fun. If I had to travel around and find a bunch of ingrediants to make the item I wanted only to fail at making that item, I'd be pretty ticked.

I just really think that they aren't trying to make the game as realistic as possible...they're trying to make it as fun as possible. Afterall, it IS a game :wink:

Actually, it sounds to me like they are taking the "let's dumb everything down" route that they take in all their games. EverQuest tradeskills may be a royal pain in the ass, but I think it's possible to tune things so that you find a balance between giving yourself carpel tunnel over hours of combines and a never fail system. To me, a never fail system wouldn't provide a very good sense of accomplishment.

All Blizzard has done here is look at what people don't like about tradeskills in other games (i.e. massive timesinks) and decided to take things to the other extreme. That doesn't mean they're being incredibly innovative, it just means they didn't bother to try and find a balance between the two extremes. And, IMO, taking the time to find a decent balance is what results in the most polished game. And everything's all zen-like and whatnot.

-Tok

[Kat]

If you never failed how would that effect your rate of advancement? Did they just remove the failure to keep it "pretty" and still code the game to make your advancement the same as if you had a failure rate?

How does your weapon skill advance? Surely you miss in combat, and spell casting. I don't see a need to make Trade Skills Infalible.

[Keiran]

The difference though is that one swing of your weapon or one spell cast costs you a miniscule amount of time, and noone agonizes over a miss or resist. The amount of time it can take to get the ingredients for a high level recipe can be hours or even days, making the cost of failure much higher and more stressful.

The idea is indeed to remove the stress without making the game too easy. I think they're going to pull it off, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Luckton]

Actually, it sounds to me like they are taking the "let's dumb everything down" route that they take in all their games. EverQuest tradeskills may be a royal pain in the ass, but I think it's possible to tune things so that you find a balance between giving yourself carpel tunnel over hours of combines and a never fail system. To me, a never fail system wouldn't provide a very good sense of accomplishment.

All Blizzard has done here is look at what people don't like about tradeskills in other games (i.e. massive timesinks) and decided to take things to the other extreme. That doesn't mean they're being incredibly innovative, it just means they didn't bother to try and find a balance between the two extremes. And, IMO, taking the time to find a decent balance is what results in the most polished game. And everything's all zen-like and whatnot.

-TokThe amount of time it can take to get the ingredients for a high level recipe can be hours or even days, making the cost of failure much higher and more stressful.

That's the jam right there. They aren't balancing between fail and not fail. They're balancing between if you can even attempt it ;)

And I don't see what the whole thing is about WoW being "dumbed down". So what if their games are dumbed down? They must be doing something right if they're selling so many copies, continue supporting those copies uears after release, and continue to stay in business.

Let's put it this way. The hardcores have EQ. Let the casual and soft people have WoW, eh? :) It's a win-win situation.

[xlorepdarkhelm]

Umm.... unless I missed something, I believe that not only will it be balanced with the "if you can even attempt it", but most likely several of the materials will be quest items that you have to do other steps to acquire. And from the way their quest system is looking like, it's all good to me. Personally, frustration does not equal fun. Sitting around for weeks on end to rush to kill a single creature before 1,001 other people is not fun. putting in over 20 hours of straight XP grind work to not make enough to even make a single level definitely is not fun. If all Blizzard does is fix those problems, and their game keeps you distracted enough, like they claim it will, to not have to focus on the XP bar (for lack of anything else better to do) then it's far better than other MMORPGs. Gimme a world where I feel like I make a difference in it (even if it is purely perception), and where there's enough little things to do that will advance my character's development without me needing to focus solely on that development, then I'm happy as can be. I don't care if it's graphics are stick-men on notebook paper, and the sound effects are little more than beeps on my watch. I personally don't care if massive raiding designs are implemented, as I tend to be of a moderately anti-social (rather, I tend to get frustrated with ever-increasingly large groups of people in one area), and love to solo in a game - where grouping is an option, not mandatory for my survival.

[Rhiamon Fatesealer]

I actually like SWG's crafting system. You set down harvesters to mine mass quantities of the resources that you need. Of course, you have to FIND the resources before you can set down a harvester. But once you do, you have tons of whatever you are mining. More advanced stuff means more resources, and generally means sub-components that you have to create in a factory. And you still have a chance to critically fail, at any level, including master. But you also have the ability to experiment, where you can make the stats of your item better than they would be otherwise. The thing I don't like about it, is that it's considered a "class" so it takes up skill points to use it that you could use on other stuff. Unlike EQ where any race/class combo can skill up as many of the tradeskills as they like.

What I would REALLY love to see out of a tradeskill system is one that lets you actually design stuff. Like, for an architect, for example. Instead of gaining the ability to make a small naboo house, you gain the ability to make stairs, columns, walls etc. Which you can combine any way you want to make a house. The more stairs, columns, walls etc that you use, the more resources it takes. But you have freedom of design instead of every master architect being the same as every other master architect. Just an idea, no idea how/if they could make that work in actual gameplay.

[Penguin (:>(O ):]

I dont like the idea of the Herb gathering and Mining I think that they should be part of the things that use them. I like the ideer of engineering, specially if you dont have to be a gnome to do it Ie. tinkering. I think that the gathering trades are for poeple who want to pharm and get money. I you are getting the supplies you sell them =LOTSA MONEY! And yeah the "other MMORPG's" EHEM I HAVE NO IDEA :D

[Grey_Bishop]

I like the idea of having a Warrior-Alchemist combo.

Anyone remember Chakan?

[stuman89]

i think its AWSOME that u wont have to get 20 of the item just to make sure that you will be able to get at least one of it

and how could a game with ORCS and ELVES and GNOMES be real...............