Career concerns- should I have re-enlisted?

[Breandan]

A lot of this will probably not make any sense to those not in the military, so apologies in advance.

Drill this weekend sucked monkey scrote, and things seem to be going further downhill. Events of this weekend have made me question the wisdom of re-enlisting, and for the first time the merest glimmer of a thought of getting out has popped up in my head. To understand how significant that is, you have to remember that I fought for three years to get back in shape, lose weight, and get my health in order so that I could re-enlist. I have been awake for 22 hours, and am not capable of organizing my feelings into cogent and cohesive statements, so this may sound like a ramble, again, apologies.

The problem is this- this is not, from what I have seen thus far, the US Military I enlisted in last time, it is a PC, politically-run kiddy-camp. Yes, I know things are somewhat different in Iraq because bullets are flying, but soldiers I have talked to over there and recently returned have not exactly been giving me good news. I re-enlisted to do my effing job, which is to be a soldier, to fight, not sit on my backside with my thumb firmly inserted up my rectum while being surrounded by the most ate-up disorganized clusterf**k I have ever seen in my life. I am supposed to be attached to the unit that is now deploying to Kosovo, but because I am not MOSQ as a cav scout, I am stuck in a state of limbo that no one seems to know what to do about. Nor am I alone, multiple other prior-service soldiers going through WTC and reclass training are stuck in this limbo with me. So, what does the Natl. Guard do in it's infinite wisdom? Classifies us as general non-MOSQ, and lumped us in RSP with new recruits who haven't even been sent to Basic yet, and begun slinging the hooah-hooah chest-thumping machismo bullsh*t that they spoonfeed to naive and hormonal late teenage boys. We are f**king VETERANS! Most of us have been at the barbecue more than once, and this sort of kindergarten frat party is bloody insulting. We are all over thirty, hell most of us are in our mid-thirties, and have been in for 2 to 6 years in our prior enlistments. We know how little good that garbage is going to do these kids when they are lying face down in their buddy's blood as bullets suck through the air a frog's buttcrack above them. It's like being a graduate student waiting to graduate and being stuck in kindergarten while you wait...

It gets worse- specialists pretending to be sergeants because the kids don't know any better (and getting pissed off when we point that out, not realizing that we have been doing this for a while longer than some of them), no uniforms on most of these kids, complete lack of BASIC military protocol and discipline from the non-coms down, total clusterf**k of drill organization (they have moved us from armoury to armoury each drill, and forget to tell us until the last damned minute as an example), and no end of problems with pay and other HR issues (one guy has not been paid in a year, and is still listed as an E-1, even though he enlisted as an E-3, because nobody bothered to fix either issue when he brings them up every drill. He is about to tell them to get bent), and on and on. Hell, other than the staff-sergeants and higher, I am older than most of these people, and a great deal more intelligent and mature, which irks me to no end. I feel like I am in high school all over again.

Well, the NCOIC is actually worth a damn as far as I can tell (though with the condition of the rest of this mess, I will withold final judgement), and figured that us old-farts can be usefull as instructors. So, he tapped us to teach some of the classes last drill. Sounded damn good at first... Till they seemed to have completely forgotten that they had done so, changed plans eight times in as many days without giving any notice to anyone outside of their own little cabal, and then changed plans again in mid-stride this weekend and instead of training, using us to go do a recruiting drive (i.e., using us to do their job instead of letting us do ours). Then I heard something that made me want to effing puke- "If you can get three people signed up and shipped out within thirty days, you'll get an ARCOM (Army Commendation Medal, the highest non-combat award in the Army) and a free slot for AB school (Airborne School)." So, let me get this straigh- if I grab three naive, seventeen to eighteen year old kids, hand them to you so you can fill their heads with BS about college, skip the whole fight-a-war part, and sex it up with lies and empty promises, ship them out, and generally do your job to cover for your own incompetence and shortfalls, you're going to just hand me a medal that most soldiers have to bust their balls to earn, thereby denigrating all those who earned it, and making it meaningless for me, and give me a slot to go to one of the elite schools that usually has to be earned? I have four words for whoever came up with that- ass kiss freckled my, and not in that order :evil:

Now, the argument could be made- "Hey, no sweat, you'll be with your unit when you finish your reclass school, and life will be good". Bets? I am seeing people who are getting back from OSUT and they are no better, and I am watching permenant party members of units still state-side, and am not too impressed. The ones in Iraq, different story, but they are under the gun, so they HAVE to grow up. That being said, many of the casualties we have taken over there are from people not paying attention and looking for IEDs. In what I have seen, and in general, it looks like political correctness has run amock and tried to create a kinder-gentler military that is nice and pretty and doesn't violate personal space rather than a military that is in a war for the survival of this nation. The biggest shock today was finding out that the National Guard armour units will no longer have ARMOUR! They are taking all of the tanks away and making the tank crews drive hummers and APCs. I don't know what sort of outboard-powered crack pipe the rocket scientist who thought THAT beauty up was hitting, but it goes to prove that catastrophic willful stupidity does exist in the most unlikely of places. The sheeple have spread, and they have infected the military.

I re-enlisted to do my job. My job is to fight, kill, and if necessary, die to accomplish the objectives of my unit, to make sure that my buddies come back in one piece and still sucking air, and to remove as many Jihadis from the gene pool as possible before they can murder more people. I re-enlisted to fight, because unlike the skulls-full-of-mush that I am seeing in the RSP, I have been there, have experience both military and non, and that experience makes me and the other guys who are in my position valuable. And we're being used as effing babysitters at kiddy summer camp. I could probably accomplish my goals quicker, easier, and better through my own devises getting my company a contract overseas. Hell, my officers get better training than I have seen coming out of OSUT these days, so we might be safer as contractors. The money sure as hell would be better.

Anyway, I needed to get a lot of this off my chest, and vent, because right now, I am not entirely sure where I am going to go with all of this. I am disappointed and saddened with what I have seen, but also have to be fair and remember that I haven't seen the endgame yet. The thoughts and considerations I make over the next month will determine whether I remain a part of the military or not. Input and thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm watching this thread closely. If you don't particularly like this man's job or have dislike the politics involved, don't discuss it here. -Raph

[Frodric]

I went thru Basic 12 years ago. At this time the Army was introducing something called red cards in which recruits to indicate that they were too stressed to a Drill and get a Drill to leave them alone. The company next to ours used them. My unit pared down from 273 to 216 in the first 2 weeks. Over the next 15 weeks we pared down to 164 who graduated. The class next to my company ( and we called it a class not a company which shows you how little respect our CO had for it) challanged us to a little confidence course. Since they had more people then we did we ran the course twice to make up for the difference in numbers. We still beat them. Some of them were so poorly trained they failed to complete the course.

In the end as deployments have grown and recruiting has gotten downright corrupt I'm sure things have gotten worse. The use of training funds for deployments hasn't helped I'm sure as well. In the end I think that without a large body of people to draw from the Army isn't as selective as it should be to properly perform its duties. This is at all levels. Crap NCO's are retained when they should be Bad NCOER'ed if they can't get a replacement. LT's are promoted to ranks and duties they have no readiness for etc etc.


In the end its about the base numbers and how high you can set the standards directly relates to how many you can afford to lose.

[Gavin Darkhart]

We used to joke about the Natl guard, one of my personal favorites involved a new training camp for Airborne Keg Delivery Technician. Graduation requirement 100 pumps before the beer hits the ground.


Don't get me wrong, the NG does some great things, Searching for lost hikers, building emergency levees (under the watchfull eye of an Engineer) and doing all kinds of important domestic stuff, but if you joined up expecting to actually go to war and be a real soldier, you're in the wrong outfit.

My advise, calm down, take a breath and remember that the citizen soldiers are doing important if non-glamerous work, but at the same time they are only soldiers 2 days a month, the rest of the time they are flipping burgers at McD's and pushing out of date laptops down at Circuit City. Mostly they are in the Nat Guard specifically so they will have the least likelyhood of actually being sent off to die but still get to hang the cool uniform where the girls can see it.

[Darth Lorax]

Gavin, you are a little behind the times. You're right about the National Guard, pre 9-11. Today half of the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are Guard and Reserve. The active duty is too small to do anything but the initial phase of an extended conflict. I'd say you have about the same chance of getting deployed whether you joined the active duty or reserve component.

Breandan, I feel your pain. I don’t like to air dirty laundry in public but I’m going to break the code of silence this time. Most of you know that I’m currently doing a tour in Iraq. What you don’t know is how I got here. I’m going to do my best to summarize. I tried to PM my story once and it ran several pages.

I got an ROTC scholarship and went to collage. After which I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant. I was never enlisted which is something I’ve often regretted. After Three years of active duty they were downsizing the military and asked for volunteers to leave. By this time I’d decided not to make a career of it took the opportunity. However, I still owed some time and I had to finish it up in a Guard or Reserve unit. After a year and a half in the reserves my unit was deployed to Bosnia, eight months after my daughter was born. I didn’t complain about that even though I missed most of her ‘firsts’ but when I got home and she didn’t remember me I decided I’d done enough. So after three years in a reserve unit I transferred to the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) to finish my last two years. By the way, the entire time I was in that unit there were teams deployed somewhere and it wasn’t letting up. However, once my commitment was up I didn’t get out. The IRR doesn’t do anything. No paycheck, no training, just a letter each year to confirm my address and other personnel information. I figured if I got laid off from work I’d have a backup plan. After 9-11 I considered volunteering to go to Afghanistan. I contemplated this and decided that at that time my family needed me more than my country and family always comes first.

July 2004 I got a letter, orders actually. I was being removed from the IRR and placed on active duty in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. I had six weeks to prepare to be gone from my family for up to two years. Shocked to say the least I prepared and reported for duty. It goes down hill from there. After being jerked around from one post to another, told several different stories as to what I’d be doing, not knowing form week to week where I’d sleep at night, living out of a duffle bag for almost six months I ended up in a National Guard unit in Iraq. The three questions I heard over and over were, “Who are you? What are you doing here? What are we going to do with you?” This is not the same army I left six years ago. A group of fellow IRR draftees and I were told by a Major General that we were his third string and he was looking back at an empty bench. I’ve never been in a National Guard unit before but I have to agree with Breandan, it’s one big monkey scrote suck-a-thon. I was not even given a drug test, a physical fitness test or even a physical. If they needed me so bad why didn’t they have a plan as to what to do with me? I could go on and on…

I’ve already written my resignation. Once I get home I’m done. No retirement is worth putting up with this. The sad part is I know a lot of good people are also leaving which will only make things worse.

If you stay in Breandan I think you should consider Officer Candidate School. There’s a serious need for competent officers. It might not suck any less but at least you’d get paid a little better. Plus you might be able to make a difference. I for one am glad that people like you and Mr. Insomniac signed up. We need good people.

Speaking of tanks, I haven’t figured out why we’re turning our armored units into light units. What really blows my mind is that we’re trying to turn our Hummers into APCs. The top maintenance priority is to put armor on all vehicles. We’re exceeding the weight capacity of the truck. Do you know what happens when you overload a vehicle and then get in an accident or get hit by an IED? There’s virtually no suspension system. I’ve seen several Hummers destroyed by what should have been minor fender benders. We have APCs in the inventory, let’s use them!

OK, I’m going to stop venting now.

[Tiberius]

Wow. I knew the military had changed from 15 years ago when I was in, but not that much. Even then we had a Major frocked as a LTC so the Battalion would be covered, a 65% divorce rate, etc. And that was in Germany. I couldn't imagine with everything going on the issues now.

As for the vehicles, I can answer that one. The entire cold war was built up as an armored battle. We dedicated everything we had to fight tanks. Now, the conflicts are against highly mobile forces. Something a tank isn't geared towards. Hummers are much cheaper than an M1. But the bean counters won't acknowledge that an armored Hummer is not a M113 or Bradley.

[Dilorenzo]

Sounds to me like maybe you shouldn't have- if only because you now find yourself in a situation where you're so angry and frustrated.
I had no idea things were that bad in the military, and as annoyed as you guys are, its a fascinating read.

[Breandan]

For the record, I enlisted in 1990, got out in 94, and have not been in the military or had anything to do with it until last year. I have been doing law enforcement, security consulting, etc. since 94, and thus have gotten used to a high level of professionalism and competence that I am stunned to say is severely lacking in the military I am seeing now. At this point, while it is still an option, I may be resigning. Either that, or I will be getting an OCS slot so I can at least get into a position to make a difference.

[Dilorenzo]

Just do whatever you think is best for you Brean- you're hardly one to do things that aren't. What exactly is an OCS slot though?

[Breandan]

OCS = Officer Candidate School, basically the school one goes to to become an officer in the military. I was shooting for Lt. Col. as a long term goal, and now I am thinking that if I step up my plans I might be able to get to where I can make some kind of a difference and reverse this crap before the excrement hits the fan. If the Sino-Russian alliance decided to get hostile and take us on today, we'd be buggered. I want to make damn sure that doesn't happen, and I can't do that where I am at now. Maybe as an officer I can counter the politically-motivated and catastrophically stupid policies coming out of Congress and the Pentagon and make a dent, however small, back in the right direction.

Failing that, there's always Belize.

[Ciarin]

you should complain to your CoC or JAG.

[Breandan]

Been talking to family and kin, as well as some other folks I trust, and basically it has all boiled down to two options- 1) parting ways with the military and never looking back, building my company up to have international capabilities and operate as a contractor company, or 2) become an officer in the military immediately so that I can get into a position of leadership to change this as much as I can so that I can keep the kids from getting killed by political correctness. Option 2 does not preclude option 1, and both could be done in conjunction since this is the National Guard, a reserve component, and not active duty, but the end decision will be a while in coming as I have a lot to think about and need to gather as much information as possible.

[Wolf]

That being said, many of the casualties we have taken over there are from people not paying attention and looking for IEDs.

I figure thats how a kid died from my town. People who knew him from school always knew he was psycho. He did things such as punch threw a window and beat the crap out of the driver to literally ripping a cat in half.

[Strikesfirmly]

As for the vehicles, I can answer that one. The entire cold war was built up as an armored battle. We dedicated everything we had to fight tanks. Now, the conflicts are against highly mobile forces. Something a tank isn't geared towards. Hummers are much cheaper than an M1. But the bean counters won't acknowledge that an armored Hummer is not a M113 or Bradley.
Yeah, those ol M-1's really bring in the bucks to the voting districts don't they? When you consider those same contracters design and build useful LBTs (something we've lacked since Korea) using almost the same armament for nations that don't use Leopard 1s or ex-Soviet equipment it really makes you wonder about our military screaming over defense cuts that won't adopt them.


Brean, man, if you are having these feelings I guarantee you won't be happy on active duty. As part of the combat oriented active Army you -will- be going to places like Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. I don't know about you but when I enlisted in the Army it was to defend this country from actual attack, not go and watch people kill themselves in areas where they've done that since before recorded history. Admittedly it was Guard first to get some useful education then on to the active half, fortunately I didn't do that.

Problem was shortly after I enlisted the massive downsize after Desert Storm MADE the Guard and Reserve the Army. Except for some Cav, Armor, Airborne, and what not you suddenly had 60% plus of the Army force as part-time soldiers, even quite a bit of Artillery and Air Defense. How do you rapidly deploy a division to a shooting war when you have to call it up first? This is a lesson America has never learned, and we the soldiers always pay the price each conflict until the brass recalls how to control such a large force in the field. If ever, and depending on the current admitted or concealed political stance.

The Guard experience is not to be believed. You have a force the State must fund, the Federal government equip, yet neither wants to pay for it. If the President wants to use a Guard unit he asks the Governor to call it up, but sometimes they have the option to vote to go...one of my old units did this for Iraq. By a slim majority I'm told, leading to much hostility before and after.

I never did the job I went to MOS school for; my first unit had the slot but not any of the equipment. Instead I got some ojt as 77M (among others); petroleum specialist ie gas station attendant. The state closed that armory.

I got ojt at a second unit for Combat Engineer; explosives, demolitions, construction, obstacles, and removing same. Note that this is Guardsmen training to do the same job as the first guys ashore at Normandy.

Most of the rest of my Guard & Reserve time was spent as 12C; bridge crewman which I actually went to MOS training for. To the best of my knowledge there are no longer any active duty bridging units for rapid deployment. Yet the first things the Air Force and whatever enemy takes out are? And as everyone knows military equipment does not move by air. When was the last time any of you practiced loading all of your unit's equipment onto a Military Sealift Command ship crewed by Navy Reservists, hopefully a RoRo? After entraining all those vehicles to get to a port? I surely never did.

In all those years only -once- did I spend a day doing riot training and the other jobs being asked of the soldiers in Iraq. The statement about your security officers having better training is spot on Brean. In fact, I recall not too long ago near mutinies at the pre-deployment camps in SoCal. The Army claimed the Guardsmen & Reservists were under-trained and the Guardmens & Reservists were angry over being ripped from their familes and being asked to become MPs more or less but instead being retrained on basic military tasks.

About 1999 I read the writing on the wall which said find something better or end up as road kill in a country I didn't give two s**ts about. It is just a question every soldier asks sooner or later in America's armies; Is my loyalty to my family and fellow soldiers? Or to a knee jerk country that can't decide on a rational political policy at gunpoint using someone else's hands?

I joined the Coast Guard for a few years, where most Coasties on a daily basis get to save ~American~ lives. Something the National Guard rarely gets to do anymore.


"Are we still shooting at people?" - Sfc. Troy Barlow, "Three Kings"

[Satrah]

Truthfully...do what's best for you.

An old bit of advice from my father, "Do a career that you like, where you will enjoy your job. Cause everything else will frustrate you."

He chose firefighting over making and programing computer chips. That was 28 years ago. He hasn't regreted that choice since. (He has had a few frustrating moments...but not as bad as e had when he was building the computer chips.)

You've rarely been wrong before....your judgement has been fairly sound.

[lazuris]

7 years in, shooting for 8 shortly, active duty been deployed 3ish years of that enlistment. Survival school, OSW, OEF, OIF...not to mention others I can't mention. That being said...No offense to the few guard guys on these boards, but that was your mistake Breandan. EVERY guard guy who's come to do what we do leaves within 6 months, every time I've deployed with them they're so friggin PC and constantly complain about how things can be better, rather then make it better. I have seen the difference between active and guard all around the world and although there's a few exceptions (usually prior active duty hehe) it's always the same story, most guardsmen didn't think they were joining the "real" military least the majority of them didn't expect it to be therefore they have no respect, no bearing, no use...just my observation and I honestly blame it all on the recruiting.

[Tathaur]

You see, the problem with the world today is, as you are painfully aware of, it's been invaded by politically correct, limp wristed wussies. It seems they just overtook the military too.

It's hardly a jihadist when they're fighting you in their own home, trying to repel a invading army is it? Heck, if they'd be doing the same anywhere in the western world, they'd go down in history books as "Heroes who refused to give up their homeland and fought to the last man to repel the ebil invaders".

From my limited familiarity with you, I'd think you'd do the same if you'd have Iraqis invading the United States? ;)

[Breandan]

... although there's a few exceptions (usually prior active duty hehe) it's always the same story, most guardsmen didn't think they were joining the "real" military least the majority of them didn't expect it to be therefore they have no respect, no bearing, no use...just my observation and I honestly blame it all on the recruiting.Speaking as a prior active duty soldier, I can say I was stunned at the difference. And yes, I DO blame the recruiters, who I am disgusted to say are corrupt as hell more often than not.

As for fighting a war, that's WHY I re-enlisted. Not for college money (have two degrees already), not for money (make five times more in my "civilian" job than on military duty), not for the glory (too old to give a damn about things like that), not for "the chicks" (do well enough out of uniform, why use a gimmick? :twisted: ), not to be "cool" (again, too old, too cranky, and too damn ... well, me to give a damn about that), and not for some oversimplified idealism- I am not a patriot, a hero, a good American, none of that- I re-enlisted because I am a Gael, fighting is what we do, and we have made a profession of fighting other peoples' wars better than they could for over a millenia. Call it tradition. That, and I abjectly HATE the kind of people who would butcher women and treat them like cattle. Figure if I am going to fight, might as well do it against someone who A) wants to conquer the world, thus making them no different than all the other empires we have had to endure in our history, and B) are ethically and morally anethema to our way of life.

Anyway, the way it is looking, I will be presenting my chain of command an ultimatum- get me into OCS ASAP, or lose me permenantly. I will try to make a difference if I can, but I am not going to screw myself or my people over for the sake of deoraithe cac ar oineach who have always looked at us as just more meat for the grinder. If I get into OCS, I can make captain within 5 to 6 years, and start making a dent in this insanity. I do no good in the enlisted ranks. If OCS is not going to be an option, so be it, and I will wash my hands of the whole mess and move on.

[Strikesfirmly]

and although there's a few exceptions (usually prior active duty hehe) it's always the same story, most guardsmen didn't think they were joining the "real" military least the majority of them didn't expect it to be therefore they have no respect, no bearing, no use...just my observation and I honestly blame it all on the recruiting.
Yeah, it blows the mind. These people spend months training to carry and shoot automatic weapons, set claymores, protect against NBC, go on to x MOS school then spend years of monthly drills doing x military BS, even alongside some veterans, and still;

They just don't comprehend what they have spent all that time training to do....

In almost all of America's wars there is this naivety on the part of most soldiers about what they are being asked to do.



Troy Barlow: Are we shooting?
Soldier: What?
Troy Barlow: Are we shooting people or what?
Soldier: Are we shooting?
Troy Barlow: That's what I'm asking you!
Soldier: What's the answer?
Troy Barlow: I don't know the answer! That's what I'm trying to find out!

Someone was so in the know when they wrote that movie. One soldier watching a target, three soldiers arguing over gum.

[Breandan]

In almost all of America's wars there is this naivety on the part of most soldiers about what they are being asked to do.And there you hit the nail on the head for me. Lemme splain, and this will be a little rambling, so bear with-

Among the Sinsearach Traditionalists of the Gael (i.e., the population group I come from) there is an occupation-based caste system that dates back thousands of years to the Indo-European root from which we descend. One of those castes is the Laochra (laoch singular), or warriors. There are multiple stages of life for us, as opposed to the childhood -> adulthood among the deoraithe ("outsiders", basically), which basically go leanbh (child) -> Céad Fear/Bean Midboth (First Man/Woman of 'Middle Huts' [archaic term], having more rights and responsibilities than a child, but not adults yet. Generally hit this between 6 and 10) -> Dara Fear/Bean Midboth (Second Man/Woman of 'Middle Huts', having more rights and responsibilities than a Céad Fear/Bean Midboth, not being adults yet, and having officially been taken into an apprenticeship in their caste. Generally hit this between 10 and 15) -> lowest status of their caste (varies) in an adult capacity.

The reason this is important to note (and the reason it ties into all of this) is this- generally by age 4 a child starts showing traits of the caste they will fall into. As ours is a meritocratic society, social status, rank if you will, and caste are earned through proving one's capabilities. This means an ongoing perpetual drive to better one's self in their caste or to achieve a desired caste or position. Failing to meet those standards causes one to fall from that status and have to start over again. Likewise, proving one's worth and ability allows one to rise in stature and/or change castes. What this means, summing it up, is that children who show the traits of the laochra are fostered into a warrior household and trained by the laoch or laochra of that home from childhood. They will remain in that caste until they choose to move to something else (very rarely), fall from that caste due to inability to perform the duties or due to disgrace, or they die. So, among us, one is laoch, a warrior, literally from childhood till death, not just for four years as happens in the American military, and because our status depends on our capabilities and deeds, we constantly strive to prove ourselves and better our abilities.

To bring this back around to make my point- 99% of the reason I have been so disgusted with this whole mess is that I am comparing it to the way my people treat professions, especially being warriors, and it is not without some small measure of contempt that I, and other laochra of my people, look at these part-time fast-food soldiers who's sole saving grace is the technology they have. Many professional soldiers who earn great accolades and are highly-decorated veterans among the deoraithe are people who, had they been born and raised among our people, would have become laochra.

The other issue is the view of the military and the ironic nature of our position as virtual exiles. Most western societies view soldiers as a necessary evil, something that must exist, but not particularly liking what they do. The Gael, as I said earlier, have made a profession of warfare since the sons of Miled first set foot there nearly 3,000 years ago, and our predecessors all the way back to the first Neolithic Indo-European tribes were just as warlike. We are not something most western nations, including modern Ireland (which is another rant altogether), can fully wrap their minds around, and vice versa. We embrace violence and warfare as a force of nature, an extension of human nature and a part of the dynamic and violent cycle that drives the universe. Our worldview is one of conflict at every level- from the mortal to the Divine- balanced with tranquility and beauty over which those conflicts are fought, be it a land, a woman, or an artifact of wonder. Warfare is a brutal, ugly, nasty thing to the deoraithe, and it should be, since it was their cultural and social predecessors in Rome who turned warfare into a machine of mass slaughter. Warfare to us is brutal and violent, yes, but we also see the glory and honour in it, with acts of courage and heroism being the basis of the tales all Gael are raised on, Christian or Sinsearachta. Warriors are highly valued, honoured, and prized among our people, both as leaders and mates. Whether male or female, a laoch is someone who is looked upon with respect, and viewed by the opposite sex the same way rock stars, actors, and sports figures are among the deoraithe. They are seen as the core of our people because they are the ones who fight to defend our lands and the lands of the Host Nations in which we dwell in Diaspora, and because, should it become necessary, every laoch swears an oath to fight to the death for his or her people, sacrificing their lives to save the rest.

Now, due to the Three Ravages of Ireland (the Cromwell Genocides, the Famines, and the Great Usurpation, also known as the Age of Apathy), the Sinsearach Traditionalists who were forced at gunpoint or by social or economic pressures into Diaspora are the last remnants of a once proud and glorious people who hold onto this culture and religion. Complacency, corruption, arrogance, and ignorance of enemies on our doorstep are what led to our near-obliteration, and it is this very same stupidity that I am seeing happen in the US military. On the fringes, in the reserve components, granted, but it is spreading. My people made that screw up and paid the price, and while we are recovering, having an entire empire hell-bent on the annihilation of your way of life for many centuries is not easy to survive, and we are a shattered people after nearly a millennium of war, genocides, plagues, and famines. As a result, we learned our lesson, and the concept of a highly-disciplined and hyper-professional caste of warriors, as well as being aware and alert to dangers from any corner, has gained an importance far beyond anything our ancestors ever imagined. We have to make up for low quantities with extremely high quality. Thus, we are demanding of the laochra and their apprentices.

Now that I have probably bored the hell out of half the people here, lemme give the ADHD summation- I am pissed about all of this because I was raised with an understanding of warriors being professionals who earned their rank, and who fought with determination, intelligence, and honour.

Meh, I have been up for 18 hours, need sleep...

edit: Holy crap this was longer than I realized :shock:

[Satrah]

Holy frek.




I actually understood that.

Frightening in a way.


And the thought that crosses my mind....should I try to explain how I understand...or not?

Right this second, I think I'm a shade too wiped to coherently type out what is clear in my mind. (Especially with all the typos I just made.)

[Trumble]

It's saddens me to learn medals are being offered to people who get 3 people to enlist in the army. I never realy agreed with what was going on with the national guard and reserve recruitment and this just plain makes me very upset. I have the UPMOST respect for the enlisted, I just feel bad for the guys in the NG and reserve who are currently 3 years MIA from their familys after being told something completly different. My friend Jasons daughter is 1 and a half now and hes never met her and he's in the reserves, his GF (wasn't able to get married b/c he shipped out b4 his wedding despite what he was promised) said he keeps getting told his unit is coming home and it keeps getting put off, shes hoping for january.

I realy hope he can get home safely. Sigh...

[Darth Lorax]

It's hardly a jihadist when they're fighting you in their own home, trying to repel a invading army is it? Heck, if they'd be doing the same anywhere in the western world, they'd go down in history books as "Heroes who refused to give up their homeland and fought to the last man to repel the ebil invaders".
At the risk of derailing the thread I'd like to point out a pet peeve of mine. The people, if you can call them that, who are fighting here in Iraq by a very large majority, are NOT Iraqi. More Iraqis have been killed than Americans by these insurgents. It makes my skin crawl when people say, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” That’s just bullsh*t. Terrorist are just plain criminals, they care nothing about freedom for anyone. You don’t sacrifice 26 of your own children just to kill one enemy and still get to call yourself a hero.

/rant off

[Breandan]

Since this is still here, I guess it wasn't considered a derail, so I shall clarify some mistaken points here-
It's hardly a jihadist when they're fighting you in their own home, trying to repel a invading army is it? The Iraqi people as a whole (80%+) want us there. The people we are fighting are NOT Iraqi, as Darth pointed out, but a mixture of Iranian and Syrian mercenaries and Al Qaeda thugs who are killing more Iraqis than Americans. To put this in terms you would understand, imagine if the entire government of Iceland was usurped in a military coup by a group of nazi-style fascists, and they then massacred hundreds of thousands of people who disagreed with them, or were, say one type of Christian instead of their type, and after decades of begging the outside world for help, being ignored, and failing to assassinate the leaders or succeed in overthrowing them, another country FINALLY comes to your aid and smashes the totalitarian government, giving control back to the people. Now, after this liberation, imagine French and Belgian troops were being smuggled into Iceland, alongside neo-fascists from throughout the world, intent on causing the liberation to fail so that they could control Iceland, and turn it into a different kind of fascist nation, or communist, or whatever, from which to conquer all of Europe, and then the world. Thus, you have the situation in Iraq as it really is, not as the agenda-driven media and ignorant activists who have never been there portray it.
From my limited familiarity with you, I'd think you'd do the same if you'd have Iraqis invading the United States? ;)If some tyrant came to power and turned the United States or Ireland into the Fourth Reich, I would gladly welcome any foreign nation helping us to kick them out of power. When the English invaded Ireland in force, the Spanish offered aid, and we accepted. Logistical blunders landed their troops in the wrong place, and things went to hell in a hand basket at Kinsale, but we welcomed foreigners helping to oust other foreigners. If you want to know how Americans are seen there, as liberators or invaders, my advice is to take vacation time, go to Iraq, and ask the people. You'll be surprised by their answers.