Teenage Angst...How original...

[DeadThorn]

Okay, so, I'm in the Choir. Shut up, its not that lame I assure you. But any way, I really enjoy it. A whole lot. But every year, we have to do some very Christian songs for Christmas. The problem with this is I'm Jewish, and quite proud of this fact.

Not only are these songs akward for me to sing, my father (who is currently re-married to a die-hard Catholic and total bitch) thinks that because I sing these songs, I must be Christian now. Last year, he was angry with me because I refused to kneel in church. I'm Jewish, I kneel for nothing.

I don't want to anger my Choir Teacher or my Dad. Any ideas?

[Binaman]

Are you the only Jewish kid in the class? if so I would say bite it and sing the songs, you wouldn't want to be knowen as the kids that ruined x-mas would you. To me I see a typically south park thing going on here. You know if you speak up some jackass will never let it die. I spoke up once in my choir class about the kids that were dicking around... ugh they never let it die... anywho as for your dad, go to his church with your ( beanie hat ) I forgot what they are called sorry =( and anything else that you have that shows you are jewish and just sit there and take the service and do nothing that the catholic church demands, I think that would be a good way to be like ha I didnt convert cause I sang a song.

Now if there are several jewish kids in your class, get them together with the teacher and see if there is a Jewish song he/she could get the class to sing along with the chirstan ones....

just my 2 cents

[John Dyne]

Frankly? Ignore the drama. It isn't going to be as bad as you think. If you're proud of what you are and feel strongly about this, then bow out. It won't cause many waves, and if it does, they won't be big or last long. You certainly won't ruin Christmas.

Your choir teacher shouldn't be angry because one singer bowed out for religious reasons. In fact, it's a strong show of character. Just explain to him what you're thinking and he should be fine with it.

Do the same with your dad. Explain to him you're sticking with the Jewish faith and all that, and tell him you'll go to mass with your step-mother and him out of respect for him, but that you aren't converting.

It's actually fairly common for Jewish people to come to mass with friends or relatives, and vice versa, but it doesn't mean a conversion. I've attended Baptist and Jewish churches out of curiousity, and I'm still Catholic.

All in all, just ignore the drama. Drama at that point is nothing more than stuff to look back upon and laugh at. It certainly won't mold your future unless you let it.

[Breandan]

look on the bright side- the differences between Judaism and Christianity are relatively minor when you look at the differences between, say Bhuddism and Christianity, Ásatrú and Christianity, Hinduism and Christianity, or Traidisiún Sinseartha and Christianity. You still pray to the same god, so there's some similarity there. Others don't even have that much, and feel even more alienated than you do.

Point is, you aren't alone, and what you do about it is your choice- deal with it stoicly, dealing with it and hoping it doesn't cause you to break, and wait till you reach 18, get out of the house and set off on your own so that you can follow your own principles and not have others dictate them to you, or raise hell about it and, in doing so, make a stand that will likely turn you into a social pariah and make life a living hell for you until you manage to move out. Remember, every choice you make will have consequences, make them wisely based on what consequences you are willing to endure.

[DeadThorn]

I don't live with my dad, but when I visit him for christmas break its expected for me to go to Church. His reasoing: He attended my Bar Mitzvah so its only right that I got to Church.

The thing about a Bar Mitzvah is that it has nothing to do with relgion; its mostly just an honor held by the Jewish relgion.

How is this fair? He went to 2 Bar Mitzvahs so I have to attend Mass 6 times?

I'm thinking of asking her if I could just bow out of the songs. Come on for the less religious ones or soem thing.

[Ciarin]

I don't think you should go to mass if you don't want to. If it were me, I wouldn't go to church or sing christians songs. I'm not christian, I don't believe in any of it, and that's all there is to it.

In the army, we're supposed to take an oath that ends with, "so help me god". I never said it. We were also supposed to pray at formation with chaplains leading a prayer. I prayed to the gods and ignored what the chaplain said. Currently there's a controversy of christian chaplains who want to invoke the name of Jesus Christ in the unit prayers (outside of church).

If you really don't want to make waves, then while you're singing christian songs, just lip sync. But I personally wouldn't care about making waves, and I'd be a bitch about it.

If your dad makes you go to mass, go to mass and start praying in hebrew.

[Ambrya]

When I was in high school choir, I remember my choir director had on his bulletin board a newsletter from some association of music educators that basically addressed the issue of liturgical music in public schools.

What it basically boils down to is that a great deal of the most beautiful and technically challenging music ever composed in Western culture is liturgical in nature, and that no school choir director, whose job and duty it is to EDUCATE about music above and beyond all else, can truly claim they have educated their students about music without spending a great deal of time on liturgical music. It's not about indoctination, it's about celebrating and understanding the beauty of music.

In the 10th grade, we did Visions of St. John. In the 11th grade, we did the Rutter Requiem (to this day one of my all-time favorite pieces of music.) In the 12th grade we did Benjamin Britton's Rejoice in the Lamb. Those were our mainstay, competition pieces, the ones that won us prizes at festivals, and beside that we also learned gospel jazz, and the Christmas tunes (many of which are not actually liturgical at all except for the mention of the holiday itself) and of course the ubiquitous annual performance of Handel's Hallelujah chorus. And at no time during the performance of any of these peices of music did it feel as though any of us were being pressured into accepting any particular belief structure.

Now, I could be biased, because I was raised Christian (though from my teen years on I was agnostic at best.) Maybe it would be different if I hailed from a different belief system and found myself in that same situation, maybe I would have been more sensitive. I do believe that choir in public schools could be more well rounded and teach about music that didn't originate in Western culture, but a lot of that is aesthetics--a lot of middle eastern and asian and even Hebrew music just sounds plain WEIRD to audiences that are used to western music (try listening to the "Bend it Like Beckham" soundtrack sometime--very cool music, but sometimes the vocals sound like a cat being slaughtered.) That becomes a problem because in concerts and competitions, you don't want the sounds you are producing to be offputting to your audience.

If you enjoy choir, enjoy choir. Sing. Do it joyously and leave the other issues at the door. Don't lip sync, or bow out, because then you aren't actually doing what you are IN THAT CHOIR to do, and what (if it's a school choir) you are being graded upon. It's a team, and lip syncing in choir is no different than standing at the sidelines at an athletic event when your coach is telling you to get on the field; if you do it, you're not being part of the team and you may as well not be there at all. Be ready to get in the game, or don't join the team. If you don't join the team because you don't believe in what the team is doing, that's fine. It's a legitimate choice and completely worthy of respect. But if you DO join the team and then decide you don't want to play, there's simply no point in your having joined.

Singing music from a particular faith in no way, shape or form means you adhere to that faith--a Jew singing Christian music makes him Christian no more than a Christian singing Hebrew music would make him a Jew. Keep in mind that Barbra Streisand, who is Jewish, has put out at least two Christmas collections. Why? Because that's what her audience wants to hear, and because it's beautiful music--not because she believes in it. John Rutter, whose Requiem I mentioned earlier, is actually an atheist, if I recall correctly. It's really rather like acting: should a Jewish actor not play non-Jewish roles? Should a Christian actor not play non-Christian roles? It's just music, it's not a belief structure. When you sing a song, you are inhabiting the "role" of the person who wrote that song, and sometimes that person wrote that song to celebrate his or her own faith. It doesn't mean it's your faith; it just means you are playing a part they wrote for you, the singer, to play.

As for kneeling at Mass, that's another matter entirely separate from the choir issue and one really need not hinge upon the other. My ex-husband used to play bass for the praise band at a friend's Catholic church, and sometimes I would sing with them. Neither of us were Catholic. When I wasn't with the band in front, but instead in the pews with our friend's family, I would be silent and respectful, but I would also be very inconspicuous when it came to parts of the Mass that I couldn't participate in. When others knelt, I would remain seated, so that I wasn't sticking out by standing up, but neither was I kneeling. I would remain seated while they went forward to take Communion. I would remain silent while they recited the Credo, and I wouldn't genuflect or cross myself. This was not at all disrespectful; on the contrary, I believe it would have been disrespectful to mimic their actions when I didn't share their beliefs.

Be true to yourself is the bottom line. If you feel you cannot in good conscience sing Christian music as a Jew, then don't be in the choir. But if you wish to be in the choir, understand that you can sing the music of other faiths without sharing those faiths, just as an actor can play the role of a character of another faith. Take joy in the music for the sake of the music, not for the sake of the lyrics alone. You can attend Christian ceremonies and be respectful of those ceremonies without being Christian, and without pretending to partake in those ceremonies when you don't believe in them. Ideally, your father would be mature enough to understand this; if he's not, just accept that he's wrong-headed about it, that you can't change his mind, and continue to be yourself. You don't have to get in his face about it, you don't have to be confrontational about it, you don't need to make unnecessary drama about it. If he confronts you, simply explain, wihtout being snide or disrespectful, that you sing the music in the choir because you appreciate the artistry of the music, not because you have changed your faith. Simply conduct yourself with quiet dignity and respect for others while being true to yourself. That is the adult thing to do.

[HyfighStereo]

You do need to stick up for your beleifs no matter who they offend. If it makes you uncomfortable to sing these songs (which they really shouldn't if you don't take the songs to heart, and simply sing them just like any other song) talk to your teacher one on one and express your concern. As for your father, it should be the same thing. Tell him that you have enough respect for him to at least go to church, he should have enough respect for you not to make you kneel....

[Coffee]

I grew up Catholic in the heart of the bible belt, so I can kinda feel ya on this one.
Only advice I can give is follow your principles...they're what make you who you are.

[Mordican]

You have to stick to your principals as coffee said. I know a faira mount of Jewish people who celebrate Christmas for the commercial holiday that it has become, not the religous holiday that its associated with. If singing the songs makes you feel akward then don't sing them, plain and simple. If someone doesn't like it, tough luck for them. You are who you are, don't change to be someone your not.

[Binaman]

I'm thinking of asking her if I could just bow out of the songs. Come on for the less religious ones or soem thing.

That sounds like a good idea, and as long as you hold firm and just keep inforcing to your father that you are not "converting" just attending out of "good faith" you should be set and hopefully drama free. Which was the intent of my orignal post, might not have sounded like hehe someone else here worded what I was thinking better :)

[HyfighStereo]

Here's how I look at it DeadThorn. I am a Christian myself. It personally would not make me uncomfortable to sing a song from any religion as I understand where my faith stands and also understand that by singing a song that does not follow my religous beliefs does not make me blasphemous. I have been to Catholic mass as my wife's father was confirmed last year. I went out of courtesy for him. I didn't kneel, I didn't go up for the quasi communion that are given to non-Catholics. I simply sat quietly... Why? I don't believe in some of the things Catholics do. In my opinion, there is a difference in singing a song about religion versus actually performing acts of another religion.

[Da_Dude]

The Catholic church is basied on alot of cerimonies and tradtions, much as is the Jewish faith. Now if I walke dinto a cynagog*sp? wearing a big cross around my neck and refused to honor their cerimonies people would get ticked off. Now I'm not saying you have to participate in any of the cerimonies that directly are against your faith Ex. accepting the body and blood of Christ or eating pork. But bowing in respect of someone's beliefs or nodding your head in prayer isn't gonna kill you. I'm gonan assume the songs you are sining arn't anything more than carols w/o regilous overtones in them, just assuming forgive me if I'm wrong, but if that is the case then just sing them. If any of the songs are directly talkign about Jesus or anything else that is directly relioug then tlak to your teacher and ask him if you can sit out during those songs. I'm sure he'll understand. Be proud of your beliefs, they are nothing to be ashamed of, but also be respectful and curtious of other's beliefs.

[Korkskrew]

Declare a holy war! It seems to be the style these days.

[togashi]

I'm Christian myself, and my wife's family is Catholic. Every wedding, funeral, etc that we go to has a mass attached to it. I don't kneel, I don't take communion there, and I don't participate. I sit quietly. My suggestion to you would be to inform your choir director that you are Jewish, and are uncomfortable with singing songs that are Christian in nature, regardless of the intent to educate. I'm no lawyer, but I think your teacher is legally bound to offer an opt-out in this case.

As far as your father is concerned, you're on your own.

[DeadThorn]

To all of you guys that said "I'm Christian and would have no problems singing ang type of song"...

I want you guys to go sing a Wiccan Song and a Islamic Song.

[Binaman]

When I was in choir in high school, I sang songs that were of other reglion and in thier own language, so task complete ;)

[Ambrya]

Well, as I said, I'm agnostic and have been for many years, so that doesn't really apply. But I'll make the acting analogy again, because the post I made before was rather long and you might have missed it.

When you perform a song, you are acting a role the composer of that song created for whomever performs it. It's no different than performing a role in a play, the duration is just shorter. If your high school put on, say, Romeo and Juliet and wanted you to play the role of Friar Laurence, would you refuse because it's a character of another faith? There are a lot of Christian actors out there who play Jewish roles, and a lot of Jewish actors who play Christian roles. Singing is no different.

For my money, music is its own entity. It has nothing to do with politics, or religion, unless we make it so. Sing for the love of singing, and check the other stuff.

[Insomniac]

If you really have a problem singing the songs, offer to do something else during the show to make up for it. When I was a senior in high school, our ladies choir did a medley of some pop music that (to me) seemed very innapropriate for a high school group. Throw in some suggestive choreography, and I was not into it. I offered to be a stage hand for the show instead. My choir director had no problem with it once I explained to him that I wasn't going to try to get the other girls to boycott it, and why I was refusing. He even recognised me at the end of the run for being a stage manager. :D

Edit:

As for the mass...according to the church, non-catholics are not expected to participate in the mass, and are actually not supposed to take communion. Sitting there quietly the whole time is what you are supposed to do. However, if I were you, and not catholic, I probably wouldn't go to mass, since you seem to have such a problem with it. Not even for my father. It might make a whole lot of drama this year, but maybe he wouldn't expect you to go anymore if you make a big deal out of it once.
I, myself, love going to services of different religions. It gives me a perspective on them that I otherwise wouldn't have. Too many people are ignorant of the true beliefs of different religions because they just take for truth what they hear about them, instead of actually trying to find out what they're really about.

[Fyrie]

If you have to do it, think of it as that a Creator (whichever one wins out and shows up when reach what's waiting after death) - is best worshipped/given tribute, when we live fully. If you have a gift in singing, then regardless of the words, whatever gave you that gift will enjoy and glory in your using it. I rather doubt that a Creator would nit pick about songs and forgo the opportunity to have you sing for them. As long as you believe a greater power gave you the gift of song, use it to the best of your ability and I'm sure they'll understand your circumstance.

I rather think any creator would be dissapointed with the discord we have perpetuated in their name.

[HyfighStereo]

To all of you guys that said "I'm Christian and would have no problems singing ang type of song"...

I want you guys to go sing a Wiccan Song and a Islamic Song.

I sang in a chior while I was in middle school and sang songs of MANY different religions/cultures. I was just saying it was a personal thing that does not bother me. As you well quoted what I said was "I'm Christian and would have no problems singing any type of song". I personally don't have a problem looking into other religions and seeing what their all about because I am strong enough in my own faith to still hold close to me what I view as true. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if you are not comfortable singing a song from another religion, then don't. Just as everyone has a right to a freedom of religion, and freedom of speech, you have the right to not speak (or sing in this instance).

Just to summarize, I was not telling you to suck it up and sing the song, I was stating AGAIN that it doesn't bother me PERSONALLY.

[Darth Lorax]

DeadThorn, you asked for ideas so here’s my 2¢. If singing a song that refers to another religion bothers you don’t do it. Some people have a problem with it some don’t. There’s nothing wrong with how you feel. If you choose not to sing, decline in a way that exemplifies your beliefs. If strife and discord were tenets of Judaism then I would expect you to cause a scene and make other people feel uncomfortable. I don’t think that’s the case. How would a Rabbi handle the situation? You could volunteer to do a Hanukkah song but I don’t know how that would be received in your situation.

As far as attending mass goes here’s my take. First, and you might not like this part, I believe that parents have a responsibility to teach and expose their children to some kind of moral standard and spiritual belief as long as the children live with their parents. This includes making them attend worship services. On the other hand parents should do this in a way that demonstrates the values of their religion, not provoke their kids into rebellion. I don’t like how your father is handling this. (It sounds like he’s trying to pass you off as Catholic to his friends for selfish reasons.) Singing a song doesn’t make you a convert and he should respect the fact that you already have strong convictions for Judaism. It’s been my experience that most religions are happy to have visitors at their services as long as you’re invited in and are not there to cause a disruption. They don’t expect you to participate in all of the rituals, in fact you may offend some if you do participate. Tell your father that out of respect for the Catholic Church that you don’t want to kneel or take communion because you feel that doing so could be seen as sacrilege to the church. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[DeadThorn]

Its not that it refers to another religion. What kind of hipocrite would I be if I had a problem with that? I mean, I have a problem singing "Praise Jesus my lord my savoir"...Thats all.

And, as stated, I'm Jewish. My parents have been divorced since I was three. My father remaired 8 years ago, and since then he's been trying to convert me.

I'm not "rebelling".

But thanks for the good wishes.