Civ 4

[bob the goat]

Ok, Friday I picked up a copy of Civilization 4. Whenever I play RTS games like C&C Generals, Starcraft etc I lose. I lose hardcore. I am more about building the infrastructure than the tactics of war. When I am ready to attack I have enough units that…well it looks like the zerg attack in starship troopers, and I am building units faster than anyone can kill them. I am more concerned about the economic part of the battle that the units don’t seem to matter. This tactic works great against the computer, but humans stomp me. I played once against my roommate (who is really good at Generals), and after the 4th beat down in a row I said, ok, this time you can’t attack until I do. He managed to fend off my first attack, then he countered. He actually penetrated my outer defenses, but I was building units faster than he could kill them. I slaughtered his attackers, and started sending units into his base as fast as they were building. He didn’t last long.

I like Civ 4, because you can win without building an army, or you can tailor your force to your play style much more. The first three games I played averaged 3 hours each.

Is that normal, or am I doing something really wrong?

(I do have to say that it is a blast to attack with bombers, tanks, and apache’s when the defenders have clubs and archers.)

[asquithfeare]

hahahahaha that's how I play Civ hahahahaha

[Whytewulf]

I am more about building the infrastructure than the tactics of war. When I am ready to attack I have enough units that…well it looks like the zerg attack in starship troopers, and I am building units faster than anyone can kill them. I am more concerned about the economic part of the battle that the units don’t seem to matter. This tactic works great against the computer, but humans stomp me.

That is how I play, and unless the computer cheats (which it will) I can usually win. The computer cheats in CIv III, on Monarch and above. And why I say it cheats? If you are doing pretty good at the begining, no matter what you can never get the techs first, you can't build the wonders then and most of the time the other nations all declare war, thus you are playing defense. I am minding my own business giving stuff away and they get pissed again. UGH!. Does Civ IV do this too?

[bob the goat]

actually, I won a game last night in 4.5 hours, without declaring war on anyone.

[junior]

That is how I play, and unless the computer cheats (which it will) I can usually win. The computer cheats in CIv III, on Monarch and above. And why I say it cheats? If you are doing pretty good at the begining, no matter what you can never get the techs first, you can't build the wonders then and most of the time the other nations all declare war, thus you are playing defense. I am minding my own business giving stuff away and they get pissed again. UGH!. Does Civ IV do this too?

Civ IV still gives the computer players certain advantages at each difficulty level. But with just a little effort you can probably avoid having every single computer player at war with you at the same time. The game actually tells you how your past actions influence a computer empire's outlook of you, which means that it's fairly easy to keep at least a couple of computer empires firmly in your corner.

[Zarithar]

Late in posting a response to this... but my cousin just gave me his copy of Civ 4 yesterday and I am hooked... BADLY. It's so much better than Civ 3, and seems to be on par with Civ 2 (which was up until this point my favorite of the series).

I like the extra emphasis and options as far as diplomacy is concerned this time around. So far I'm doing pretty good, I have a chain of islands under my control (I chose "archipelego" single player map), and amicable relations with the Persians, Aztecs, and Germans. The French however are starting to piss me off and I can forsee hostilities erupting...

Fortunately my buddies the Germans don't care for them either so maybe I can convince them to back me up.

It's a great game, highly recommended... my only slight complaints are the Leonard Nimoy voice-overs. It's really sad to hear how his voice has deteriorated since his glory days as Spock. Minor nitpick... I really can't complain about anything else!

One thing puzzles me though... religion seems to be a much bigger factor in this Civ, and all of the world's major religions are represented. It was my wish however to keep paganism as my official state religion... however this doesn't seem to be a viable option.

[Mei]

I play CIV games to the death. (conquest) I find satisfaction is owning the whole map. My games usually take weeks.

I like to be peacefull while ther eis room to grow then I start the eviction process.... only Acceptig peace if I get technologies from it... Or if I'm really in need of some serious withdrawl time.

CIV4.. I didn't like. it was ... too Grpahical.. the units didn't really do what I wanted.. I seemed to either kick everyone militarly.. or culturely or both, or be placed in a position where I was stunted and kept in unable to advance due to be inferior.

I liked the Scroll out globe and zoom in. Submarines were harder to find.. the naval war was not that great.. I mean you can bombard cities to reduce the def% but I seemed to loose more when attacking then when defending and you couldn't bombard like previous versions. I Really like the ally free landing... but I learned it's not that great if your enemy has free movemnt there too.

The AI was easier to deal with in 4 but.. they seemed to nag me on about wanting to end my alliance with thier enemy... which I help in better trust them them.. I did like the fact I could sick the ai after my enemy without getting involved. I think I played more Civ3 then 4 and I don't have the hunger to play $ like I did to play 2 and 3. It was a good game but the replayability hnger wasn't in 4... and I think it's because 4 was such a resource pig and the large world games needed something my p4 3ghz and ati 9600 pro could deliver.

[bob the goat]

Yeah, I learned early on that certain religions have advantages to them, and using them as stepping stones progresses the game much faster. One of the nice things is the missionaries. They can be sent to your own cities and increase your standing in that city, thereby increasing production. I love bombers. Huge range, and the decrease not only defense, but can kill units, resources, and roads. As soon as I get bombers I choose a particular resource that the enemy is short on, and decimate it. i.e. if you wipe out all of their farms, not only does their production rate drop due to starving populations, they now have to build new farms. If you take out their workers as they attempt to build, you can force them to build new workers. The computer is not bright enough to build much air defense, so bombers are usually unopposed when the pound a city to the ground. Many times I have taken over a city because my bombers have wiped out every unit there, so one unit can capture the city. Asking a weak opponent to assist you in attacking a strong opponent is a great way to distract the strong opponent while getting technologically ahead of the enemy. (longbows don’t work well against tanks.)

[bulldog]

After playing Rome: Total War's campaign map this is boring as hell for me, although, I don't rate this game bad at all. Just the bloke in the tutorial who freaked me out a bit.

[Mei]

I tell you what.. the Warlords pack for Civ 4 is great. I'm finding myself Playing again.

[Whytewulf]

Thanks for reminding me.. I still need to pick this up. I wonder if they did or will release a Civ IV with warlords in it.

[Mei]

Well they Have generals that will arrive into your usable after enough combat experience is earned. What you can do with generals is rather interesting.. You can add the general to the city and each military unit gains 2 XP on creation or in the later part of the game you can build Military academy's which Turn out Military units 50% faster, or you assign the general to a unit to give it 20 XP points... with give your noob unit a 4/5 promotion tree to which you can specialize the bonus modifiers on the unit.

Withthe Warlords pack you also can build Stables with give 2 XP to new horse based units until the gun ship arrives.


The one wonder I do enjoy seeing created is the great wall as it physically get put on the game map along your territory and barbarians can't cross, however it doesn't auto expand so new cities outside the core area won't be in the wall area.

In warlords, After several games.. You really have or have not... the AI is easier to deal with for foreign relations and you can sort of hold your own if you are a bit inferior.

I just completed a game where I had the aluminum, another civ had oil and a third remaining Civ had uranium. It felt like a Mexican standoff until I payed the price for oil and armed my self with enough to secure an island Oil deposit to which all bets were off. The use of spys to disrupt the resources is also fun. While being inferior to the computer opponent in this scenario it was fun to rely on using as many different units to stay off the island assaults and air campaigns. things improved once I could upgrade to jet fighters and passively de militarize the airs using SAM, Jets, and mechanized infantry.

If you were on the Fence not really into the civ4 Rev 1 then warlords will bring the civ back for you.

[bob the goat]

Ahh…see I fight a different way. I start by popping up 2-3 extra cities as fast as possible near good resources or strategic areas. Then I send some fast moving troops over to their land and trash all their farms and mines. Without resources they can’t grow. 8 out of 10 games I end up having helicopters trashing their swordsmen. I do think that it is a pain in the ass that archers can take down my choppers and longbows seem to always PWN me. I love getting bombers and trashing all their defenses, workers, farms, roads…everything.

[yewsef]

I think anyone playing less than Noble difficulty is being in a big advantage than the other civilizations. Noble and Prince are "fair" more than that you're at a big disadvantage.

Well, playing in the hard difficulties with big disadvantages sometimes is not very hard. What I do is, you have to keep aggressive civilizations busy. Either ask them to attack another civilization by trading money or scientific advancement or ask another civilization to attack them. Don't let any civilization that is not pleased with you Idle. I keep focusing on science and keep the aggressive guys busy till I beat them with a fast Spaceship Race. I do play conquest, culture, domination, political or even One City Challenge games. But Space Race is my favorite because i can finish a game in so little time, building VERY few units that I upgrade when they are upgrdable (so my Mech Def used to be an Archer upgraded through time). Just focus on science and city improvements.

[Mei]

The warlords Barbarians Scenario is kinda fun! play the barbarians and destroy civilization! ( you get gold for everything you destory except roads and can Buy "era" stuff on demand and upgrades.

[Whytewulf]

I just got it.. crap.. I am addicted. I need the Warlords pack.. It does take some effort to get the new stuff down.

--- Updated ---

Did ya'll see the civ IV beyond the sword pack. Looks interesting.

Edit, just realized Woody had a cool drawn ad for it on the front page too. I believe it came out yesterday.

[darkpaw]

I picked up BTS last night and stayed up far too late playing it. From what I've seen so far, its the best expansion for any civ game yet.

The Final Frontier senario was great, but the changes to the main game are even better. The AI is just plain smarter now so it cheats less and acts more like a human player. I'm looking forward to playing some more tonight. They added so much crap this time its pretty insane.

[Whytewulf]

Wow the AI doesn't cheat? I am having a hard time with levels Prince and up... seems i do well then I get 3 AI's declaring war for no good reason.

[B_Delacroix]

Beyond the Sword is on my want list.... Civ 4 was so cool and fun.

[darkpaw]

Hehe, cheats less - but it definately cheats. Under vanilla/civ4 the AI gets a lot of bonus production/units (especially at higher levels). Under BTS, they lowered the bonuses, but increased the actual skill of the AI. I've actually dropped the difficulty back down to warlord until I learn the new system.

One area thats definately improved in the AI is sea combat. Before a civ on the otherside of the world might declare war on you then drop off 1 or 2 boats of units someplace 25 turns later. Now they'll hide a whole fleet just outside your borders, declar war, and land huge stacks. Definately need to defend coastal cities more then you used to.

[Whytewulf]

One area thats definately improved in the AI is sea combat. Before a civ on the otherside of the world might declare war on you then drop off 1 or 2 boats of units someplace 25 turns later. Now they'll hide a whole fleet just outside your borders, declar war, and land huge stacks. Definately need to defend coastal cities more then you used to.

Yikes!! That sacres me, but makes since. I don't mind Smart AI's, but it gets old when you have no idea why certain things happen. I tend to play on Perm Alliance now, because I need the partner.

[B_Delacroix]

Beyond the Sword expansion (no need to get warlords if you didn't but get Beyond the Sword) makes an already good game even better.

Now, just one more turn....

[Whytewulf]

I ordered both.. Warlords workd BTS doesn't, so I am waiting for a replacement. :(

[DemonMage]

That sucks, on both counts =-( The only thing Warlords adds that isn't included in BtS is the scenarios =-(

[Whytewulf]

I realized that after I ordered both.. So i basically wasted $15, as I don't play scenerios.. Anyone want a copy of warlords. :)

[B_Delacroix]

I did the same thing. Then found out the warlords stuff was in beyond the sword. I don't do scenarios either, except I did play the sword mod that goes into the future a little. With domed cities and mechs.

[DemonMage]

Fall from Heaven 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190) is another interesting Civ thing you should try. It's only for basic Civ right now, but they're working on porting it over to BtS with new features.

[Aren31]

I would suggest playing the Rhys and Fall of Civilization mod that's included with Beyond the Sword

Or if you don't have BtS, download the Rhys mod/scenario for Warlords or Vanilla


It is an amazing mod, and spans a realistic course of human history

Want to play as America? Well you gotta wait until the game reaches the 1700's

The game starts with 4 civilizations: China, Babylon, Egypt and India in the year 3000 BC all located at the historically accurate locations. Other civilizations are founded at their approximate time of existence, Greece appears in 1400BC, Rome in 750BC Spain around 900AD followed by France Germany and England for the medieval era.

Many of the new kingdoms are carved out of existing empires, for instance, if Rome manages to settle most of Western Europe, played by you or not, when Spain appears they annex the Roman cities that exist on the Spanish Peninsula, France takes their cities and England takes the British Isles.

You can refuse to give up those cities, but then you enter an instant war with the new civilization, while their historic cities end up unhappy and wanting to join the new civ. The computer controlled civs seem to always give up the piece of their empire that is forming into a new nation.

New nations start with a lot of advantages and plenty of troops and technology to make up for their late starts. It's quite easy to grab a food hold with the late start civs, (I noticed Spain for instance founds cities at size 2 instead of 1)

You can switch civs once during the mod, and I usally play as China or Eqypt until the civ I want to play appears in game, and then switch.

Also there is a new victory condition called Unique Historical Victory

Each civ has 3 conditions it must meet in order to win this Historical victory and each corresponds to something in that nations real history.

For example, Spain must 1. Be the first nation to settle on an American Continent 2. Control all Aztec and Incan owned territory by the year 1700 and 3. Have no other European Settlements in the Americas by 1700.

This ensures that to win a Spain UHV you must race to the new world, conquer the Incas and the Aztecs, and go to war with France and England in the new world.

Rome must 1. control historical Western Rome by 450AD (Spain, France, Britain, North Africa, Italy) 2. Have any city larger than 4 connected to Rome by road, as well as have a barracks, aqueduct and coliseum built, 3 Never have lost a city to barbarians or Carthage by some year.

Evey civ has it's own goals that guide your gameplay

The Rhys and Fall of Civilization mod is everything Civ4 Should have been and more, and has made the game a heck of a lot more fun for me, and it's included in the Beyond the Sword expansion pack

[DemonMage]

Ugh, I hated the Age of Ice one that came with BtS. Enjoying the conversion one much more =-p

[Stasisguy]

I love Turn based games. I always have in fact I got two copies of Final fantasy III when it came out I put one with my collection of other turned based games all mint in there original boxes.