I could use a little help...

[Ice_Maus]

..with deciding which MMORPG to get into.


The only time I really enjoyed playing an MMORPG is when I played FFXI and was a paladin, healing myself and tanking. I also liked the lore behind it, take a

beating and sometimes even die just so that the group members get out safely. Anyway, about the MMORPG's I am up for trying any of them.

My only problem is I have been out of the loop for about two years and I don't know which MMORPG's I should go for and which I should avoid.

If you have a suggestion for me, please don't hesitate to post a reply. If this thread has been over done and there is another thread I could post my

question on please feel free to send me the link, because there is no sense in me clogging the forums with redundant threads.

[$tormin]

So you are looking for a high durability class that can tank and heal? DaoC has several choices that fit that (and it's the only game I have had more than passing experience with)

Friar is a leather wearing class with high evade, decent damage with staves and heals/buffs. Not often wanted for rvr groups though, but are great soloers. Last patch a lot of self and group healing effects were added to melee styles, so they can heal while bashing stuff.

Heritics are a cloth wearing class that can buff thier armor to match or exceed any tanks durability and can spec in small shields as well as either whips or crushing weapons. Speccing in the healing line allows casting high damage focus dots that increase in damage over time and at a certain level they can rez a realm mate as a nearly invincible monster that procs a pbae dot when hit. Great soloers and more often wanted for RvR groups than friars.

Paladin is a tank that wears the heaviest armor in the game and can spec for shields and 1handed weapons or 2handers. Heal chants work to both reduce the need for healers to spend power and draws a huge ammount of aggro on the paladin in PvE. Nearly essential for RvR due to the endo chant, paladins are also getting a huge boost next patch with a haste chant that stacks with other forms of haste buffs (allowing nearby group members to be double hasted)

Wardens are a class that can spec one handed and shield as well as getting buffs, heals, a pulsing group effect that will block a melee hit every pulse for every member of the group, self high effect haste, self buffs to proc group or aoe heals. Since the big boost last patch, they are once again becomming popular in RvR groups and have always been welcome in PvE.

[Wolf]

I have to say I tried DAoC and wasn't really impressed with it after playing more new games such as WoW and EQ2. If I was to recommend a game I think I would have to go with World of Warcraft even though I don't play anymore. Its probably the biggest population-wise game out there right now and its the one I had the most 'fun' with. If you're into PvP or just PvE it's a really good game and definately worth picking up.

[Ice_Maus]

DAoC sounds neat, the Paladin class caught my attention. I hate to be a bother $tormin but I have some questions

about DAoC that hopefully you can help me with. How is hate/threat/enmity handled in group situations in DAoC?

How important is race for stats? What stats should I try to focus on if I want to be a paladin?

Any tips for a newbie that would help with the learning curve, so that I don't make stupid mistakes? What is RvR?

Is it similar to PvP? Also, I have heard good things about WoW, CoH, CoV, Shadowbane and EQ2?

Any of those that would allow me to tank for a group and heal myself as well?

[Ice_Maus]

I have researched WoW, EQ2, CoH, CoV, DAoC, and Shadowbane.

Although Shadowbane is now free of charge, I don't like the graphics and how you go about doing things, so that is off the list. That leaves five more.

DAoC sounds cool, I would probably be a Albion Paladin, any recommendations on what race I should go for the Albion Paladin or should I just choose the race that I think looks the coolest?

From what I can tell about WoW, Warrior would suit my needs. I thought paladin would be cool but according to the forums paladin doesn't tank much and that isn't what I want, is it true that paladins don't tank much in WoW? If I should try WoW should I go alliance or horde? Does it matter? I would be PvP if I went WoW, I also read that it is too easy and gets boring at the high end, is this true?

CoH I would be a Tanker, CoV I would be a Brute, both sound cool, not sure on much more than I know which class I would be, any more tips about either CoH and/or CoV would be appreciated, specificly if you can form groups and tank.

I have played EQ1 and from what I can tell, EQ2 takes EQ1 and takes away most of the annoying stuff, allows you to customize more and makes grouping fun but not a necessity. Would I be able to be in a position of a tank if I chose to be a paladin in EQ2? Also if I were a paladin do stats matter as much as they did in EQ1? Or can I be any race I think looks cool?

[$tormin]

DAoC sounds neat, the Paladin class caught my attention. I hate to be a bother $tormin but I have some questions

about DAoC that hopefully you can help me with. How is hate/threat/enmity handled in group situations in DAoC?


Every mob has a "hate list". Damage done to that mob or healing on that mobs target will increase a persons standing on that list. The mob will attack the top person on the list (and will usually take a swipe at anyone nearby if it is moving towards a target)
All classes with weapon styles have access to taunting styles that are decent damage and increase their level on the hate list. Some classes have spells that completely clear the hate list (make sure that these are not used just before your healer casts or it could sometimes be a pain to get the mob off)


How important is race for stats? What stats should I try to focus on if I want to be a paladin?


Strength is your melee damage, dex affects your blocking and parry (and is half your damage stat when using 1handed thrust weapons). Constitution is hit points, piety is power pool. Most good paladins intentionally gimp piety because the paladin's rez spell is 50% of max power pool for an equal level player, and having a smaller pool means faster regen to that 50%. A paladin twisting chants uses no power but if you leave endo chant on (and several other chants) you will go oop quickly. Quickness affects melee speed.

Race isn't quite as important, the differences are only really in stats. The obvious choice to not be a paladin is the Avalonian race (low str/con and hit int). Highlanders make good pallys (high str/con) and a purely defensive Pally race is saracen with high dex but low con/str.


Any tips for a newbie that would help with the learning curve, so that I don't make stupid mistakes?


Play on a classic server. Do the tutorial the first time you play. Read the information your class trainer gives you and do the early quests (which give you a semi decent set of gear too and are soloable by any class)
Above all, have the catacombs expansion. Task dungeons are where the majority will be grinding though you can literally solo quest until your high 30's if you are up to date on all expansions and not have to kill a non-quest mob.


What is RvR? Is it similar to PvP?


It's DAoC's PvP system. The Realm-based fighting takes place in the frontiers, non-instanced battlegrounds and in the three versions of darkness falls as well as in the master level 10 dungeon (the last being a ToA only thing)

[Ice_Maus]

Wow, DAoC sounds groovy. Thanks for the tips $tormin and Wolf. I think I am going to try the free trial of DAoC and see if I like it, anyone else have any more suggestions for me?

[taekwondogirl]

As far as paladins in WoW goes..

They are not main tanks, but often employed as off-tanks, meaning they are the ones getting beat on by the monster everyone tries to kill first.

They also work very well for substitute tanks when groups cannot find a warrior.

Also, they do have an ability that lets them sacrifice themselves for the good of the group, called Divine Intervention.

Used often when you can tell your group is going to wipe.. you can cast it on someone else who resses, they are put in a bubble for 3 minutes and lose all aggro. The mobs are supposed to go back to where they went, leaving the resser safe to restart the party. It does kill the paladin when they cast it.

Lesser known use for it is drive-by interventions in Ironforge, making whomever it was casted on unable to move for 3 minutes. Unless of course they decide to be party poopers and get rid of the buff, lol.

[junior]

WoW paladins are, unfortunately, quite a bit different from FFXI paladins. While both wear heavy armor and have powerful healing spells, the healing spells cast by a WoW paladin have had their hate generation adjusted so that they generate very little hate. For some reason Blizzard seems to think that there's something wrong with a plate wearing class that can use healing spells to generate hate, so they've pretty much removed this possibility. The irony when comparing with FFXI is that healing spells are one of the primary methods that paladins use to generate hate.

Both classes also have a temporary invulnerability ability, but the WoW paladin version has a ten minute recast, and it drops the paladin to the bottom of the hate list while the paladin is protected. If you use it, someone else will be getting smacked around while you're in your protective bubble (I even once had a mob leave the paladin it was fighting to run over and intervene in my own nearby fight until the paladin's ability ended and it ran back to the paladin). This opposes the FFXI 2 hour ability, which is obviously designed to aid in tanking as it boosts your enmity to stratospheric levels.

Finally, WoW paladins don't have a taunt ability. There's an agro generation ability that increases hate whenever you do Holy damage (and an ability that does Holy damage with every swing), but nothing like FFXI's Provoke that can be used by paladins (or even EQ's mass stunnage).

[$tormin]

Wow, DAoC sounds groovy. Thanks for the tips $tormin and Wolf. I think I am going to try the free trial of DAoC and see if I like it, anyone else have any more suggestions for me?

If you play on the Ector or Lamorak classic servers I will be able to help you get started. Not so much with gear or money because I am poor there though :P

[Ice_Maus]

Taekwondogirl and Junior, from what you two are saying paladins are back up healers that can wear plate. That doesn't sound like it would be fun no matter how you slice it. Thanks for the tip, do either of you know if the warrior class is enjoyable to play? I know in FFXI and EQ1 warriors were kind of bland, meaning they could tank and they could deal damage, but you normally wouldn't invite them into a group soley based on one or the other.

$tormin, I thank you for the help and suggestion of DAoC. I downloaded the client and the first two expansions(because they were free and free content makes me smile) and I made a highlander paladin. I started out as a fighter then got to paladin level only to realize I wasn't too happy with the game. I have decided on EQ2 for now. Thank you for being possibly the only nice person on the internet by offering to help me out in game.

[hekate]

also consider what you want from a game, the original everquest was awesome but somewhat dated now (i know its still good so you dont need to sabre rattle at me guys)
one of the main things that made it good was there was an actually real penalty for dying and it was genuinley feared, added to this the community really made the game.

the most polished and easyiest to get into is WOW imho, the quests are constant and there is a solid back story with simple level system, the cartoon look does annoy some people im not one of them.

DAOC was a mighty fine idea and i enjoyed it for a while, however i found it to be a very quiet lonely game that often felt more like a single player game.

everquest 2 is just kind of okay, im not going to go off on some sony EQ flaming spree as i owe them a lot for the years of sheer bloody minded fun they gave me, that said i found this lacked that certain somrething, also a lot of usefull little things where missing and i found it a little too much like having a second job

[taekwondogirl]

Taekwondogirl and Junior, from what you two are saying paladins are back up healers that can wear plate. That doesn't sound like it would be fun no matter how you slice it. Thanks for the tip, do either of you know if the warrior class is enjoyable to play? I know in FFXI and EQ1 warriors were kind of bland, meaning they could tank and they could deal damage, but you normally wouldn't invite them into a group soley based on one or the other.

$tormin, I thank you for the help and suggestion of DAoC. I downloaded the client and the first two expansions(because they were free and free content makes me smile) and I made a highlander paladin. I started out as a fighter then got to paladin level only to realize I wasn't too happy with the game. I have decided on EQ2 for now. Thank you for being possibly the only nice person on the internet by offering to help me out in game.


Well, paladins are back up healers AND back up tanks. Having one in your party who knows what they are doing can save the group from a bad pull. They also have a lot of buffs to cast. Pretty much an all around support class.

I have only gotten my warrior up to level 7, but I did enjoy it. Later on you have to get pretty strategic with what you're doing in order to maintain aggro from higher dps classes.

That's the big thing about warriors a lot of people are mislead by.. they go in thinking they're going to be causing tons of damage.. when it is really their job to hold aggro so everyone else can do the damage.

[BolarGimack]

WoW Warriors I am biased on simply because I play one. I also played one in EQ. Can ya see my diversity.

As for how they can be played. It depends on your talent build. If you want to take a beating the Protection tree is by far the way to go. You won't do much if any damage that way but by god you will stand and slap the mob in the face and sure piss it off. If you go with the damage spec's you can push out the dps and back up tank when needed.

I also have a 59 paly that is fairly fun but I use him more as a buff bot and a plate wearing rez machine. Nothing better than missing a heal with my priest and letting my war die. Only to jump to the paly and tank the mobs saving the priest and my time in whatever instance I am running.

So I guess its all a mater of perspective. Read into the stats for the classes your looking at and ignore the "official" forums. Thats where you go if you want to hear whining from a ton of people who won't be happy if they get free 1 million gold a day.

Balur 60 Dwarf Warrior
Icecrown

[junior]

WoW warriors can do a lot of damage if built that way. They're also fairly active at all times. This isn't EQ, with it's infamous 'hit auto-attack and go do something else for a half hour'.

WoW Paladins can heal fairly well. They can also tank somewhat well. Though from what I've heard, druids do better at both, and can shift between the two on the fly - except that druids can get a lot of hate while healing. Paladins get very little hate while healing, but a paladin is forced into one role or the other. Plate armor with good healing stats simply does not exist in the game. All of the good healing clothing is either light armor (including mail for shaman) or robes. And plate is required for tanking. And WoW doesn't let you switch armor around while you're fighting, so once a fight starts you're pretty much stuck with whatever role you went into it with. That's not to say that a paladin can't heal decently while wearing plate armor. But you're not going to do nearly as good of a job as you could while wearing the proper equipment.

And you are NEVER going to compete with a competent warrior that's put even a small amount of time into putting together a tanking build.

[Keudiar]

I have researched WoW, EQ2, CoH, CoV, DAoC, and Shadowbane.


From what I can tell about WoW, Warrior would suit my needs. I thought paladin would be cool but according to the forums paladin doesn't tank much and that isn't what I want, is it true that paladins don't tank much in WoW? If I should try WoW should I go alliance or horde? Does it matter? I would be PvP if I went WoW, I also read that it is too easy and gets boring at the high end, is this true?


I have played EQ1 and from what I can tell, EQ2 takes EQ1 and takes away most of the annoying stuff, allows you to customize more and makes grouping fun but not a necessity. Would I be able to be in a position of a tank if I chose to be a paladin in EQ2? Also if I were a paladin do stats matter as much as they did in EQ1? Or can I be any race I think looks cool?

It has been my experience that most of the folks that talk about wow being easy never did anything in it. The funny thing about wow is there is a very large gap between I am 60th and I R UBER:). The good thing about wow is you are not required to be in a large active raiding guild to grab up some power. I think that is the main things the power raiders hate about it LOL. There are several paths to power in wow and not all require raiding. Oh and I agree with you will not turn on auto attack and walk off. WoW also impressed me with the mob AI. The first time you are fighting a mage mob and he blinks out of your root (blink is a 20 yard teleport that mages can do) is a bit of a shocker:).

EQ2 is a good solid game and yes the paladin there can mian tank about 95% of the fights. It like wow has one very important thing that I have not seen in other MMO games. It rewards good game play. If you want to play a game where you can be a good player and make a real difference in the bad fights then I have to say WoW and EQ2 without a doubt. Sure you can show up and mash the nuke button for all your worth. But if you want to get invites all the time to do an instance or BG because you are very good at what ever class you play then try wow or EQ2.

Now I am not saying there are no smart players in other games. I am saying that from the ones I have played (EQ, WoW, SWG, L2, UO, and AO) these two reward the good players the most.

[Shizzerk]

If I were you I would go search and find trail for games.

[junior]

A paladin CAN main heal. One of the paladins in my old guild was very good at this. But there are a few things to keep in mind.

1.) The paladin in question has to have a solid Holy build. You don't want a Protection or Retribution paladin doing it.
2.) The paladin in question has to have the right gear. And since there is no plate armor in the game that allows that sort of thing, that means that the paladin will probably be wearing cloth armor (or maybe leather). And that means that the paladin won't be able to even off tank.
3.) The good paladin heal (as opposed to the one that barely moves the hp bar) has a bit of a casting time, which means that a couple of unfortunate crits could kill the person that's being healed before the spell lands. It's a very efficient heal as far as hp/mana goes (particularly when paired with Blessing of Light, which increases the amount that paladins heal for), and it generates no agro since it's a paladin healing spell, but it takes longer than may be comfortable to cast.
4.) Paladin heals have no flexibility. You've got the good heal, and the ineffective heal.

A druid can off-tank and main heal, as well as provide dps by shifting forms.

The big reason to add a paladin to your party is the blessings (+mana regen, -agro generation being the two big ones) and auras (kind of like bard songs in EQ, except that you can't twist them). I was hoping for a class that could compete with warriors in the tanking department, but Blizzard didn't deliver on that.

[OuchMaker]

my 2 cents worth

if you left EQ from burnout, you are sure to be leaving EQ2 because of it...pretty much the same concept of lvl grinding....and the "you can group but don't have to" is bull...no, you don't "have" to group, but good luck getting any items worth a damn

CoV...skip it...seriously, it's all about how cool your character looks...there are no items in the game that you can loot or wear...the drops are salvage for your "supergroup", money or these "upgrade" things that enhance your super powers...very little content....if you were thinking of PvP, most of the Heros bought CoV accounts, so good luck finding a hero to kill

i personally went with WoW because it was the only good choice really and so far i am not dissapointed (granted i have only been playing for a day)...although i pretty much knew from day 1 that D&D on-line was going to be a bust