So, does anyone remember AO?

[Dragonel]

No, really. Anarchy Online. Guns? Flying cars? Missions, but no Jawa?

I'm fairly new to these forums, though I've been reading GU for a while, and going through its archive, I was tickled to see references to non-EQ MMOGs. I've played my fair share of MMOGs, and I often have trouble sticking it out to the high-end of the game. AO was probably where I got the closest, with a couple characters nearing 100 (the game max was 200).

I'm just really surprised to see that no one seems to talk much about Norways gift to the internet. The game had very solid graphics (although it had horrible videolag problems, especially in any area crowded with users). It introduced the idea of instanced dungeons (As I understand it, recently copped in LDoN, and to be implemented in WoW), they were the first to provide PC transport (in the form of Yalmahas, wonderful flying cars), and they shook up the fantasy obsessed MMOG scene with a brilliant scifi take on things. More importantly, the fashion possibilities were *endless*. I would literally have to play dress-up a half a dozen times every session.

So where's the Jah love? o.O

[Devokan]

I still play AO, and in my mind, it's the best MMORPG out there. Mind you, I've only played 2 (EQ and AO) but I was never interested in SWG or DAoC. AC2 and Shadowbane flopped, Horizons probably will, and I don't think EQ2 is going to be much better than EQ other than the graphics. The greatest thing about AO is that (gasp) it has a semblance of a story behind it? Wow isn't that insane? Imagine a game with a story in it. /sarcasm off. And because of that, PvP is actually worth something (guilds, or organizations, control tower fields to give their members benefits, these can be attacked) Classes are solid, gameplay is fun (no downtime, almost no camping). And as you said, spaceships and fun clothes :)

[ykkir]

AO is pretty good, although to tell you the truth, I played it in the beginning and thought that it was as good as dead. but it got better

[Houma]

I declared jihad on AO when they went to release with what was really a late ALPHA or early BETA developed game... I will never play that game again and advise all who I meet to avoid it like a plauge. I hate it when companies roll out games before they're finished and AO did it before it was started. Hell, I lauded on EnB for the longest time on these boards and when they went live with one third of the game missing I just left...
My brother plays, in fact he gets the free 7 day trial and tries to beat his older level when he's bored. Niether of us will pay for a game like that.

[Dragonel]

Oooh, and the ARKs... Essentially the guide program for AO. Now, I haven't really played DaoC or SWG, so most of my experience is based on early EQ, EQOA, and a brief bit of Asheron's call, but... When was the last time you met a Guide or GM? I mean, not at some 'GMs meet your server' function, like, a GM?

When I first started a character on AO with my seven day trial, a GM approached me in the newbie area, and asked if I was having troubles. I immediately assumed I'd been reported for accidentally KSing, or for being too darned witty on Omni-Tek Newbie OOC. So I asked her "Did I do something wrong?" But, no, she was actually just there because she wanted to help, and I was griping about a nasty mob from the edge of the zone someone had trained in on us all.

But she wouldn't be the only ARK I met in my time on Rubi-Ka. You see, when I put in a /report over an inventory bug, a few weeks later, an ARK showed up within about ten minutes, listened to what had happened, and quickly produced a new item of the type I described. The same would happen repeatedly with the handful of geometry bugs I would face, at least those that weren't fixed with the easy /stuck command.

The real kicker though? They'll answer reports that you're being trained or sexually harassed, they'll answer name-change requests... It's bizarre. It's like they're players who understand what can suck in an MMOG, and they always do their darndest to fix it, even if that means they have to wade through god-only-knows what sorts of bile and abuse before a player actually thanks them for their efforts.

Oh, and Houma? A friend of mine, a software developer, explained something to me recently that you'd do well to understand. While a large part of software design is in fact coding and testing, an equally large part is expectation management. In order to produce something, you need to be able to feed yourself and not die. That means you need to be paid for the time you're investing, and that means finding people to invest money in you. Not in you, actually, but in a hypothetical piece of software you will produce. Now, invariably, you will pitch this as best you can so that they'll fund you. You'll list all the neat features you want it to have in the end, and you'll tell them how long it will take without *too* many big snags.

So they give you the money, and you sit down to work. And you start implementing the features, and then you start hitting snags. *Big* snags. You'll be amazed if you finish by the dateline you set for yourself, but the dateline is no longer in your hands, because if you don't meet the dateline your investors set, they'll stop paying you, and ask for their money back (which you've now spent on food, so you don't die). The people who are paying you aren't software designers- If they were, they'd be designing software instead of investing in software design. Consequently, if you show them the buggy PoS that the game is in whatever stage of development it is, they'll say "This isn't what we're paying you for, you have one week to fix this or we'll take away your money."

So you show them a mostly functional buggy PoS. You try to emphasize your successes, and you explain that all of your failures are fixable. And, in all likelihood, no matter how many flaws there are, whether you've mentioned them or not, your investors will say "Well, this looks fixed. It goes gold in one week or we'll take away all your money."

So, right, expectation management. A good software developer can spin the product *just* right so that the investor is willing to continue paying until the product is finished and ready for release. A good publisher (such as Blizzard) understands how development goes, and makes sure that the finished product will be worth the investment, instead of trying to save a little money by getting it done *quickly*.

Considering that what you purchased was one of the first games in its genre (preceded only by EQ, UO, and Meridian59) the designers were working in largely virgin territory, and were trying to make something very different from their predecessors. They did the best they could, and, as is demanded in the industry, released an unfinished product (Anyone care to list a litany of SoE and Verant's sins in the too-early-release area?)

I tell you this not because I want you to play AO (though you're doing yourself a disservice by not giving it another chance), and not because I want to drift the topic of this thread (Because topics drift without my help, thank you), but because if you're going to be a consumer, you need to know this. Don't by the first release of anything, because it will be broken (Remember Windows 95? Ever tried to use a computer with a broken OS?). Let it calm down, then check it out. If it's something that will be around a while if it's good (like an MMOG), wait a few months, or even a year, because it will be *much* better then.

Remember, when you purchase a game, you're not buying software. You're buying a license that permits you to alter a document in a pre-defined way (extracting the data on the disc onto your hard-drive, or opening a self-extracting file you downloaded). You're essentially purchasing something purely conceptual. Caveat, emptor.

Edit, 12.6- Fixed a couple typos

[Woody]

That wasn't nearly long enough.

[Kyriath]

~giggle~

[Radical Edward]

I played AO when it first came out and yeah it was god awfull, then I gave it a whirl about 3 months after and it was a whole lot stabler. Next to EQ and DAoC its the 3rd in time played. It was fun for the most part but once I reached level 60 or so (the level max was 200 when I played) I found it to hard to find a group since most people where either lower or higher level then me.

I was a bit dishappointed that they hadn't started the faction war story when I played a year after launch with they had flashed around on their website and game box. What made me finaly stop playing was the realization I could do the exp grind in EQ with friends insted of solo. Though I will say I did like AO's mission system and ip point system, though it got harder to do everything you wanted to do at higher levels.

The shadowlands expansion has made me give a small thought about giving AO another try, but as of now FFXI still has that new game alure. When I quit my old 66 atrox enforcer still had his adventurers backpack. (and my level 1 something-or-other on rubi-ka 2)

[Cantatus]

Good read Dragonel. It's sad that these products get pushed out the door unfinished.

Good to hear about AO's customer service. After losing interest in Horizons, I've seriously been considering giving AO or FFXI a chance. CS is one of the most important features to me, so it's good to know at least one MMOG is getting it right.

[Dragonel]

Eheh, Woody, sorry to make you guys suffer through that.

I don't usually say something unless I feel it's worth saying a lot of it o.O

[Woody]

It was perfectly fine Dragon... just pokin at ya.

[Aeria]

AO..I did the Beta on that and yes I screamed when they released it too early....WAY too early...With these mmorpg's I find they get relesed broken for the most part. EQ was way broken at release..got 6 weeks free...UO..broke as a joke...FFXI in Japan was a mess when it went live...DAoC actually was not...but then they patched themselves a few months later because they felt left out of the whole broken thing. The point is to declare you will not play something because it was broken is ok..just remember to date not one MMORPG has had smooth launches or even smooth operations after launch. Sony has fixed and rebroken EQ more times then I like to think about. Sony released SWG as a shell of what it was supposed to be...now..SLOWLY...SLOWLY DO YOU HEAR ME SONY YOU LATHARGIC SHLOCKMIESTERS..oops....they are making it a great game. I think to enjoy an MMORPG...it takes patience...and the willingness to forgive...OH BUT I WILL NOT FORGET THE PAIN YOU HAVE CAUSED ME SONY...after all ,MMORPGs are just so darn complicated that they are never ever done.

[Inara]

I gave AO a try when some friends of mine were into it. I tried, I was indifferent. The only thing other then the graphics I liked was the wardrobe and I decided I would buy a barbie instead.

I am not saying it isn't a good game. it seemed alright to me. I just couldn't justify spending monthly money on a game I would play mainly to run around in a bikini

Inara
Semper Questio
Emarr

[Volas]

I was kinda into AO for a bit... (looong after launch day)

Then shadowlands went live.. and i was like "Cool... maybe i'll pick it..... wtf? 30 bucks per month??? Kiss my <BEEP!>


PRICE AFTER TRIAL*
- USD/EUR 29.95
- 30 days included

[Radical Edward]

is that the price for the game softwear or the subscription price?

[Houma]

It's not only the fact that the software problems and development problems that turned me off to AO, it was the bussiness practices. I, bassically, allowed $50 of my money to be stolen by the company because I could not physically go to thier location and ask for my refund. I sent e-mail after e-mail to the adress they suggested and even three snail mail messages, asking for the refund that was to be provided. It never came. Yes you have to pay your people, yes investors can be assholes about their money, but your players are investors too, they just don't recieve a profit (other than playing the game) and if you dick them, you get what you deserve.
I really liked your message Dragonal. When I got to the part when you put down my name, I went, "Oh no, a flame." But it was well thought out and wonderfully written. It didn't change my mind or my viewpoint on companies who release crap, but it did remind me to wait (like I said in my post on Horizons). AO is forever ruined in my eyes though, and unless I have NOTHING else to do (like sleep, hang out, mess around with LARP things) I don't think that I would play it.
And it is sad that many people I know personally and over the internet agree with me, because the same thing happened to them. AO ruined it's most enthusiastic fan base by ripping us off and expecting us to pay a second time. That is most certainly what I don't like about a company

[(-=Phoenix=-)]

the subscription price if you DL shadowlands off the net. its not 30 bucks a month.

i play AO right now. i just got back into it like, last week or the week before. i lvled up my Engineer from 50 to 57, my enforcer from 92 to 94, then i remade my enforcer last night, and hes lvl 15. its a good game. quite a few bugs, terrible lag, but the people are nice. the GMs are awesome, the gameplay kicks ass, i love the storyline, and its just a blast to play with friends.

[Cynic]

hmmm.. AO

I think that AO isn't mentioned all that much because of it's launch (as someone already mentioned). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'll never play it because of the launch or anything. Actually, I'm on my 7 day trial of Shadowlands and am loving it so far. The launch however, was easily the WORST I have ever seen from an online game. I was there for the launch of UO, EQ, DSO, the original NWN, SB, AC2, DAoC, and I know I'm missing some lol. The game was so bad, that you couldn't move across the main city in 30 minutes due to lag. That was with a cable connection and an awesome system. Almost every feature they had mentioned was broken, or just plain out missing from the game. That left a sour taste in many mouthes.

Dragonel brought up some good points. However, any company needs to keep in mind who it goes into business with. In this case, if Funcom (makers of AO) lost control of the release point to such an extint that they had to launch the way they did, then it is still their fault. Either they seriously miscalculated the date they gave the backers, or they chose some very poor companies to back them. What really got to alot of peopl in my opinion, is that everyone thought they lsot money and couldn't take that game back to the store for a refund. I remember reading that on the forums so much during the launch! I still see people swear you can't return an online game once it's been installed. PLEeeeeeeeeease! hehe! If soemone sells you something broken, RETURN IT. They took mine back, and I was perfectly happy.:)

Just to correct a couple of things I saw,

AO wasn't the first game to use PC transportation.

Volas: the price you mentioned is basicly what you would pay IF the game was bought in a store. That's a one time only software price, not monthly. So don't let that scare you from giving AO another shot.:)

All in all, the BEST thing about AO is the community. Seriously, everyone has been very nice and supportive there. Experienced players come help new ones learn the game in the training area. No one minds you asking how to do things on the various channels, and the older players simply make you feel welcomed. Even the AO vault (IGN) forums aren't filled with the typical hate messages that most IGN forums have. :)

All in all, if you are even somewhat interested.. give the 7 day trial a go!:)

(Ending Novel)

~Cynic

[Dragonel]

I guess I'm spoiled, Cynic, I never tried it until it'd been out for... What, two years? 3?

And, Houma, a bit more consumer advice- Don't go to funcom when you want a refund, go to the retailer you bought the software from :-)

I've never tried to return an MMOG before, but I'd imagine most stores won't give you anything but store credit, if that. If they won't give you some sort of refund, though, *demand* one. Ask to speak to a manager, tell them how ridiculous and unplayable it was (It does sound like it was quite awful). In my experience, nine times out of ten, retail managers are spineless creatures that will perform lewd acts in semi-public places if they think it will earn them a return customer, so violating their company's return policy is rarely a huge deal.

If you're a teenager (forgive me for assuming, but you mentioned living with your brother), then try and get your parents to do it, as such retail beasts generally respond better to persons clearly of age who have jobs which enable them to pay bills *and* purchase software.

[KiTA]

All you have to do is say you reject the EULA. IIRC the stores are required by their sales contracts with the publisher to take them back then. And since AO's EULA comes up every time you open it, you can reject it at any time.

[Houma]

Actually when it came out I was living over the summer with my brother so we both wanted to play. Unfortunately our local retailer has a spine and a store policy not to refund anything that the parent company doesn't ok. He also has a very poor mail service. All in all a very bad combination that just turned me off to the game.

Oh and thank you for assuming that I was immature and an idiot, I'm very happy to come off as such to everyone present...

[Dragonel]

Err, you're welcome?

I'm sorry if I came off as condescending, I was just trying to be helpful :-(

[Velenka]

I'm confused. I don't see where he assumed you were immature or an idiot? :|