Anyone interested in a low fantasy RPT?

[$tormin]

Low fantasy meaning low to no magic, and almost none of the races from common high fantasy...meaning pretty much humans (probably)
I have an idea for a world in political and social turmoil. Late dark ages level of tech and such with the entire world beginning to break down as a new ice age is beginning. (crop failures, food riots and coups, religious schisms, etc)
If there is enough interest, I can create the history and geography and work out a reasonable character system.

[DogEye]

interesting... maybe... hmmm i guess no dragons centurs or goblins allowed...
humans will take alot to make them interesting in a non magic setting, after all most of us know what that position is like... most... maybe...

[Grand Inquisitor Cyrilus]

Sounds fun, but it really depends when it’s running. Unfortunately I’ve got semester finals looming on the horizon, so I might not be able to join… it really depends how much spare time I have over the coming month or so. But ideally, yes – I’d be interested in joining.

---

Incidentally, here’s my two cents on the theme (I’m assuming this thread is open to opinion / discussion as well):

The nice thing about low fantasy is it stops what I like to call ‘magic bag’ syndrome. There’s probably an actual name for it, but basically I’m referring to where solutions are manufactured on the spot for each and every dilemma. For instance:

Neville’s party was surrounded by a thousand million dragons. “Oh noes!” said Cath, “We’re doomed!”
But suddenly Neville pulled a dragon slaying bomb out of his magic bag which always had exactly what he needed and used the bomb to kill them all, saving the day.

Okay, that’s a fairly dumb example, but (hopefully) it illustrates my point. When faced with a problem, a character can suddenly use a previously unmentioned spell, ability or piece of technology to get out of it. Sometimes it works, but more often than not it’s just anticlimactic.
The advantage of low fantasy is it makes characters play by a certain set of rules. There’s no dragon slaying bombs, or magic force fields, or anything else like that. Think of it this way – how boring would MacGyver (sp?) be if he actually had the right tool for the job? What made him awesome (in my books, at least) was that he always had to make-do with what was on hand. Any sap could defuse a bomb with a bomb defusing kit. Only a hero could do it with a piece of chewing gum, a teabag and a pair of Venetian blinds.

It’s the same with any story, in my opinion. There’s no sense of climax or danger if the heroes have magic swords and lightening bolts to get them out of trouble. But when Neville only has a sword and a board to save the day with… well, that’s when things start getting interesting.

Anyhow, you’ve all done very well to read through that rant. On a final note, I might just point out a few downsides with low fantasy: it’s nigh impossible to make ‘epic’ heroes (although personally I don’t think that’s such a bad thing anyway), and it’s a tad trickier to make reading exciting when you don’t have monsters, magic and such. The advantage however, is the story tends to be less gimmicky, as characters aren’t as omnipotent. Hell, one of the heroes might actually lose a fight, for once.

Oh, one (more) final note – this wasn’t actually aimed at any of the RPT’s here. It’s just a general rant, so don’t start drawing analogies to any of the past threads. Especially ones featuring my characters.

[DogEye]

hmmm maybe setting it in the middle ages, where there is talk about magic stuff but nothing in existance, that way we can have waring kingdoms and fights among the peasents on who might be a witch or werewolf... along with the fact you have a nice artillery to choose from... swords, maces, arrows, arrows that you have dipped in oil and lit on fire... might be a bit easier to come up with an epic sounding person... as mentioned before, no actual magic... but talk about it. Like a lady for some reason thinks it is easier to get around with pants, because she just happens to work in the feilds, might be called a witch or a some other creature because it is unconventual for that time or some burly man who is slightly hairier then most, might be said to be a werewolf... and yes this has happened =P it was blamed on a fungus that grew on the wheat crop... it was a halisionaginic when it was baked into bread... this was why alot of talk sprouted of magic. then agian it might confuse the story line...

well that is just some inpute on when we can set it...

[$tormin]

Is the term you are looking for Deus ex Machina?

[Kaylen]

I would be interested in this, as long as the characters playing have a direction and there are plot hooks to get us involved into things other than killing bandits or what have you.

[DogEye]

term? for what? the fungus? i belive the common name was cockspur or something simlar...if that was what you mean... i'm not going to look up the latin name... i hate latin names for plants and plant like objects with a passion =P

[$tormin]

I would be interested in this, as long as the characters playing have a direction and there are plot hooks to get us involved into things other than killing bandits or what have you.


I plan to only play a bit part (can't expect me to not participate ;P ) and sorta GM things. With the already given premise (ice age coming, weather changing) there are more than enough possible story hooks for any direction the players want to go. Don't want to help put down the uprising of starving peasants, then you can deal with the Highest Priest who has decided that the weather change is caused by immorality and is declaring an inquesition. That not good enough, well you could try to raise an army to repel the mass migration of the northernmost nations as bad weather over the past several years has made the lands there unlivable.

[Grand Inquisitor Cyrilus]

Is the term you are looking for Deus ex Machina?

That's the one! Hmm, that could've saved me a long, boring, pointless rant...

[Rookie]

Sounds appealing to me, but maybe in a week or so. School will be over by then and i will be in need of artificial entertainment.

[$tormin]

I am thinking of using the character system from Tacharis, where people are given a set number of skill points and pick skills from a list to determine what they are good at. It would also give the players a reason to work with eachother even when, roleplaywise, they are not too fond of one another.


Rookie, the mapwork could get difficult and I actually got to liking your maps in the other rpt's. I might try to con you into map making later while I write up the history, lore and political situation of the world.

If anyone has any ideas for nations, political bodies, snippets of history or anything else feel free to give your ideas and I will probably use them (in some form or another ;D ) to expand on and flesh out my own work.

[Rookie]

I'd be glad too make maps if you wanted me to.

Maybe have the southern side of a continent, or wherever we go, fairing a little better in terms of climate and farming conditions with a ice age coming. And the northerners want in on it and try to move in, but the south isn't so keen on this so they fight back and try to keep them out. Just a suggestion

[$tormin]

The far northern people coming south was already a given, but I was going to have the south not faring much better as the water is going to the glaciers. There is severe lack of rainfall in the places that are not freezing, or very bad flooding in others.

A few places could still be doing okay, and would be both attacked by outsiders and overwhelmed by refugees by the time things started getting really dire. It would be a really good moral dilemma. Either let a huge number of people suffer while a comparatively few prosper or force those living there to share. (look up the story of the generous traveler)

[Rookie]

Sounds good. Where would the characters fit in? hired hands, farmers, townspeople, warriors/soldiers? just for clarification :D

[Korkskrew]

I'm down with this. I've been working on my writing, and I think I've gotten the DBZ syndrome out of my veins. Which should definitely cheer Storm up.

I just needed to realize how appealing weakness is within a character.

This is sounding very familiar to A Song of Ice and Fire (not necessarily a bad thing), so I think I'll make a character.

[$tormin]

Sounds good. Where would the characters fit in? hired hands, farmers, townspeople, warriors/soldiers? just for clarification :D


I was thinking starting as nobility, minor but enough to keep the pig muck from between our fingernails. This can fit anything between a hedge knight and a baron, or even a member of the clergy.

If we are to have some effect, we would need some political clout. Asking to see the king as a matter of importance while being a farmer would most likely end up getting a boot to the arse or a pike to the face!

[Rapter]

sounds good to me, i may be a low noble.. or maybe a sellsword =)

[Kaylen]

Would gender roles be the same as they were in our dark ages, or would this world be slightly enlightened?

[$tormin]

Probably not the entire world (but nothing gamebreakingly bad for female players) but some cultures and nations would allow or even encourage women to take up a more active, powerful and dangerous role such as leadership, military and clergy.
It would be kinda dumb of me to exclude half the population outright just to be an ass ;)

[Rookie]

i could dig the minor nobility role. Border lords dealing with border skirmishes and stuff, that is so my forte :)

My finals are almost done, so i should be able to start as soon as $torm lays down the foundations.

[$tormin]

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rptworld1xp.gif


This is what I have so far. The names are countries I have already worked out, but the borders haven't been done. For example, turvitna is a viking-ish place. I think that's where I will come from.


More countries can be added as people come up with names and cultural descriptions, as well as saying where they want it. After it's fleshed out Rookie can make the good version of the map.

[Rookie]

finals are done, i can now devote time. can we get a border between the north and the southern? maybe a dotted line to show a "cultural" boundary? so that maybe we can put a country(ies) on that border so that we can have some border struggle. Maybe a country or two overlapping that line so we get some internal struggles within countries?

i would personally like to have a country along that border on the southern side called Queensreach and on the coast if you would, good sir.

[$tormin]

Well once we have all the nations done up, then the borders can be placed. You have any information on the culture, government, military and climate of Queensreach?

[Rookie]

I was thinking a roman/english culture, a monarchy with a roman style military, kind of a highland type area, temperate weather normally, but since theres an ice age on the way got a little colder.

that good?

[$tormin]

Map in first post of this page updated.


Grey is glaciers over land, white is ice over water.


This is what I got so far for character abilities. This is more of a rough guide than anything else and is meant to define characters. The most important one would probably be Wealth/Nobility since that would affect your social standing and how much equipment you have.

3 levels of each skill, advanced levels require all of the lower versions of the ability.

Pick 5 abilities or ranks.

Weapons
Craft/Profession (specify. example: shipwright, smith, etc)
Martial Prowess (includes unarmed skill. Specify favored weapon types)
Horsemanship (level 1 is free)
Nobility/Wealth (includes rank in clergy.
0= Normal person without title or wealth. ex. Common soldier or low ranking officer
1= Title but no great wealth ex. Hedge Knight
2= small land and income such as from controlling a small to mid size town. Ex Minor knight or major merchant
3= large title and income such as from controlling a larger region usually comprising several towns or a small province. Ex. Minor lord or heir to such.)


I will be refining it before I start the game itself, suggestions are always welcome.

[Kaylen]

Random suggestions on the abilities:

Unless you want people playing almost-kings (and I'm not telling you you should or shouldn't,) you may want to tone down the nobility ranks a little bit (rank 1 for a knight or some such other thing, rank 2 for a minor lord, etc).

May want to only have two ranks of horsemanship - proficient and expert. Craft might also include basic professions that don't necessarily require any creation (such as a bartender), or perhaps that can be something else entirely.

Would alchemy be included? I'm hoping for something a bit more traditional, not the potion making that's been popular of late. Basically a scientist before science really existed. Not a necessity (and my character likely wouldn't be one), but just an interesting extra. As a craft.

Something feels missing from the general list but I can't think of what right now.

[$tormin]

Good suggestions, I modified it slightly. Alchemy would fall under the Craft/Professions.


An example character would be:

Yedis
Nobility: 2 (chieften of a small tribe)
Craft/Profession: 2 (blacksmith)
Weapons: 1 (longsword/shield and light armor)

[Rookie]

what i'm getting from this is that you can get one horsemanship credit free if desired?

I like this skill set-up, its basic and you don't have to memorize too much, just that your character is better suited to certain things better than others, and when riding you're not going to fair so well in killing an opponent from horseback if you have only one credit in that.

I had an idea, that may interest you:

The person will specify a major and minor skill that they will have the opportunity to improve as the game progresses. The major can be upgraded to the maximum of 3 upgrades, the minor up to two, and the other skills stay the same. Extra credits for these in-game upgrades would be awarded by the DM when deemed appropriate.

Example:
Major: weapons 2 pt
minor: craft 1 pt
nobility: 2 pt

DM awards 1 credit

major: weapons 3 pt
minor: craft 1 pt
nobility: 2 pt

but if the person has only 2 skills this might create some problem. just a suggestion that you could improve on or throw out completely.

[$tormin]

I was thinking of allowing upgrades but instead of "you killed 5000 bandits, you get a point to spend" I would grant skill-ups based on actions. If a player figures out a way to make a lot of money or captures a large area of productive land, their nobility/wealth goes up. If you spend years in practice with weapons (which could happen. during slow periods I will advance the time. Sometimes by months or a year or so) you can upgrade to master swordsman.

Edit:

By the way, I will allow players with a particularly good plan of action to become ruler of a country or even emperor of the entire continent. It WILL not be easy but there are a few ways to make it less difficult. I will leave the players to figure those out.

[Rapter]

I was thinking of allowing upgrades but instead of "you killed 5000 bandits, you get a point to spend" I would grant skill-ups based on actions. If a player figures out a way to make a lot of money or captures a large area of productive land, their nobility/wealth goes up. If you spend years in practice with weapons (which could happen. during slow periods I will advance the time. Sometimes by months or a year or so) you can upgrade to master swordsman.

Edit:

By the way, I will allow players with a particularly good plan of action to become ruler of a country or even emperor of the entire continent. It WILL not be easy but there are a few ways to make it less difficult. I will leave the players to figure those out.


Sounds intresting. *goes back to lurking till this starts*

[Grand Inquisitor Cyrilus]

I was thinking of allowing upgrades but instead of "you killed 5000 bandits, you get a point to spend" I would grant skill-ups based on actions. If a player figures out a way to make a lot of money or captures a large area of productive land, their nobility/wealth goes up. If you spend years in practice with weapons (which could happen. during slow periods I will advance the time. Sometimes by months or a year or so) you can upgrade to master swordsman.


Nice idea, I’m just not sure how it’ll affect the flow of things. More precisely, I’m a little paranoid that it emphasizes character progression rather than storyline, though I guess that’s just a matter of preference anyhow.

[$tormin]

I think I will be starting this either tomorrow or monday. I have most of the nations done and started the timeline. Still time for suggestions though.


http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/6463/rptworld2pn.gif

World's map. Only had one suggestion so I couldn't put near as many countries in as I wanted. Simpler is better though I guess.

[Rookie]

Give me the word and i'll throw together a final draft of the map. Also, is this going to be a pretty flat place or shall i add in mountains/hills/forests/plains as i see fit?

cause if anybody has a preference for terrain that may want to be included. All that has been planned is the glaciers, the frozen water, the mountains storm drew in on the north, and Queensreach being mostly highlands. Landmarks might help a wee bit ;)

Any cities (capitals for example)? cause i could see a need for capitals and maybe a few fortresses and things. Otherwise i think small towns are just going to be mentioned and forgotten.

$tormin, maybe you could type up a quick profile for each country? like say what kind of government (empire, kingdom, republic etc), maybe major cities and some general information to be posted on the first page?

There's my two bits for today, ive been at work most of today and i have had an epiphany. epiphany is over for now.

[$tormin]

pretty much put landmarks/terrain where you want them. The climate/political/cities part is the real holdup right now.
My guild is trying to eat all my time right now since we switched servers and are leveling up.

[Rookie]

As far as climate goes, i think the glaciers and frozen water should do, and i can sprinkle snowy areas across the north for a ways up until what will probably be the border between north and south.

cities are going to be the hardpart, but as far as Queensreach goes, i can handle that, probably just put one or two forts around it, but as far as everywhere else goes, ive got time. If you don't have any objection, i'll start now and as you come up with cities, i'll add them.

[Kaylen]

http://integraltheory.net/img/map.jpg

I don't mean to bust into the map-making territory, but this is probably about half done. I'm mainly doing it as practice, so I'll complete it either way, but I can post the finished version in a little while if there's no problems.

Edit: Actually, nevermind. I'm not going to finish it, I can't get it up to the quality I want it to be.

Edit 2: It's the geographical features - the forest, plains, and hills. I can't figure out how to put them down without making them look like crap. I'm going for a fancy map or else it'd be flat colours with a simple legend, but I just don't think I can pull it off. I do think the mountains are okay.

[Rookie]

Here's what i've got for a map so far:

Click here for Map (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Rookie89/map13.png)

I had an idea of what i wanted Queensreach to look like, so thats all put together. I'll probably thin out the grasslands so that it doesn't look so crowded. The lake up in the north-west corner i was thinking of covering half with ice. I'm still looking for ideas for the rest of the other countries. Capitals will be in yellow.

Not nearly as fancy as Kaylen's but i'm happy with my progress so far. Suggestions are welcome, especially for capitals and terrain and the locations of things.

Edit:fixed link

[Gumblackwood]

Hi all,

This sounds like a really neat idea. I wanted to add some of my thoughts. By the way you've been describing the climate changing, I'm surprised that there are not some deserts on the map. I'm assuming the major winds of this map are west to east, off the ocean. While this will allow some nations to have wetter climates, particularly Queensreach and the islands, I'm really surprised that the glaciers sucking away the moisture and other factors aren't visibly making Novasareid and parts of Somnada into deserts. Taking this concept further, you might expect that Novasareid has long been primarily desert, and Somnada is rapidly desertifying, particularly east beyond the mountain range shown. While this would also mean that Novasareid is far more stable in the face of climate change, I also imagine the climate changes could shift winds that far east from south-north to north-south, meaning that the temperature is dipping, killing normally tropical plants and animals that live in those areas. This can lead to all sorts of possibilities for the political and social climates there.

I hope that's not too much. Perhaps I've taken too many Science, Technology and Society classes. There are actually climate researchers that are prepping for something very similar to occur in Europe within decades.

[Rookie]

I like the idea about deserifying the southern countries a bit. that will diversify things a bit. I could definetly see the south starting to dry up, but then as the glaciers approach, they suddenly get wetter and wetter and turn the deserts into more habital then suddenly becoming frozen over.

I'll wait until $tormin gives approval before i proceed though, this was his idea and i don't want to intrude.

Edit: I'm going to make the Itoril Isalnds and Kavasland into "temporary" tropical islands in the mean time. by temporary i mean that they are going to get de-tropicaled by the ice-age.

By the way, how fast is this ice age coming on?

edit: And i just thought about the increased rain deal, if it rained increasingly in the highlands, it would run off into the lowlands assuming we applied this. but we'll get $tormin's input.

[Kaylen]

That all really depends on the size of this section of the world. If this planet is the same size as ours and the distance, north to south, is about the same as the United Kingdom, there wouldn't be too much of a heavy climatic difference. I suppose we'll be waiting on $tormin.

The water level going down would create a border of desert, but that may be one scientific fact we choose to ignore.

[Rookie]

I have messed with the map a little bit, ive added some palm trees and a couple mountains to Kavasland and beaches all around it and on the Itoril Islands, making them our tropical climate. The northern Venaria island has been moved a little closer to its buddy so its easier to tell that their is more logic to them being the same.
Added a little detail to the snow and a little extra stuff to the glacier in the north.

The desert climate and such are still pending for $tormin's approval. And the tropical climate is easily removed if need be, but Gumblackwood's ideas have definetly added a little touch to our little world. We'll see how $tormin takes it.

[$tormin]

Feel free to desertify the south. probably a sort of "band" of desert going east/west through southern Dagadia, Somnada and Norvaseid. Of course, add mountains and anything else as seen fit.

Btw, starting the OOC discussion once I have it finished. About halfway done now, my guild goes on hold until I get this started ;)

[Rookie]

Will do, oh captain my captain!

desertifying the southern area in a band like fashion

[Kaylen]

One request for the backstory (though you could be on this already): What countries were like before the ice age (if it hasn't been noticeable for very long), and how recently they've changed. How long has the desert been there? Would a character from the south be a native to the sand, or fleeing from this new and hostile environment? That sort of thing.

[$tormin]

By this point in time, the effects of climate change are just being noticed. In fact, for the duration of the original characters lives they most certainly will not see the world covered in ice, a process which takes centuries.
A few degrees of colder temperature worldwide would be bad enough, shorter harvests mean starvation and political turmoil. Rains in the desert wash away fertile soils so even those lands will not all be a safe refuge. Trade winds and ocean currents shift, moving fish stocks and making passage to the islands difficult.

If this one goes well, further ones will probably take place further along in the ice ages progress (and might just take into account our actions here if we make a big enough spalsh on history :D)

[Rookie]

this one is going to be good with all the planning that's going into it, its going to be more organized than my original RPT, so it should do better if we work at it.

[$tormin]

History
Ages past a great general named Terlus Heurlian declared this this world was from that time forth entirely part of the Sudara Empire. A vast alliance of nations was under his command and with skill and cunning he crushed all opposition. It seemed a golden age was to begin. The year of this announcement was declared Year 0 of the Common Era.
Within the lifetime of Emperor Terlus' grandson a disaster struck the world. On the eastern sea an island slid into the ocean causing a huge tidal wave that swept the capital of the Sudara Empire and nearly all of its major cities and much of its major croplands were swept into the away. The empire tried to fly apart as formerly docile nations asserted remembered independence. Bloody civil war followed until the highest priest of Soma, who somehow survived the sinking of the empire's capital, managed to gain control of the largest factions and stop the war. The far Westlands succeeded in splitting from the Empire and there was no force large enough to force them to return.
High Priest Josairus declared the empire to be renamed Somnada, which meant “Land of God” and named himself Soma-Ki the First, claiming divine lineage.

The centuries ground on in the Westlands. The northernmost nation split into four separate countries: Turvodia, which included much of the Horseland Plains. Heavily forested Tordagral, the mountainous fjord-lands of Turvitna and the mysterious island of Venkar.
South of this, the nation of Queensreach prospered under the rule of a long succession of very capable kings and queens (the firstborn inheriting rule whether male or female). During a time of particular prosperity the Queen of the time sent a great fleet to search the seas, discovering the near fabled lands of Venaria, Kavasland, the Itoril Islands, and Venkar which had been seperated even from their northern brothers for ages by this point.
Yet further to the south the nations of Dagadia and Norvaseid grew on a wealth of minerals and exotic spices and fruits desired worldwide.

Now is the year CE4188. For decades the weather worldwide has been changing for the worse. Winters grow longer and colder, rains fall where they should not and do not fall where needed. Crops fail and fishing beds, which for thousands of years have been excellent, are starting to thin.

Culture:

Northlands: Viking/Mongol. Large fierce people who love battle. Much of the northlands are constantly fighting one border skirmish or another though they seldom come to a full war. The Fjord-landers of Turvitna commonly strike south in ships that are the envy of much of the world. Raiding coastal towns and cities as far south as Dagadia and occassionally Norvaseid. Trade as well as plunder motivates these people, wealth and plunder of the world comes home on the great longships.

Queensreach: Roman/British. The nation of Queensreach is wealthy and technologically advanced, though not interested in conquest so much as trade and exploration.

Southlands: Pre-Islamic Arabia. Independent communities, cities and islands make up the nations of Dagadia and Norvaseid. Traders through the deserts move between oasis cities and mining towns making great wealth. The people who live here are very superstitious though as many of their lives hang on attaining a balance with their surroundings.

The major and minor islands: Asian. Undiscovered for much of the world's history, the island nations of Venaria, Kavasland and the Itoril Islands grew strong and vibrant though fairly isolationist. Great cities and the ruins of civilizations so ancient that none remember them can be found among the tropical jungles.

Somnada: (semi)Roman. The people of Somnada still hold to ancient history of the great empire of which little remains. The priests of Soma rule the widely varied lands of this nation, overruling kings lords and any other secular rulers. Cultures in this country vary wildly and nearly everything could be found by someone who searched long and hard enough.

The Temple of Soma still holds great power in the westlands and to the south but control is all but non-existent. The current high priest, a man of nearly 100 years and slipping sanity, has called an inquisition to wipe out the heresies that have been spreading through the westlands for the past thousands of years. Needless to say the leaders of these nations are not happy with this intrusion while and odd shift in harvests is threatening to topple them.

[Rookie]

Here is the Finished Map (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Rookie89/map13.png)

I had to put in some last minute changes to incorporate $tormin's last post, but its all put together and i hope you guys like it.

Edit: Link should be fixed and ready to go.

[Rapter]

Looks great, gonna write up my character soon, still thinking of where i should start.

[Rookie]

$tormin has worked on the character skills chart a little i hope ;)

I really like how the map turned out, and i hope it helps us with our RPT.

[Grand Inquisitor Cyrilus]

As above. Hopefully this’ll be ready to roll sometime soon, or I may have to resort to actually doing study.

Something feels missing from the general list but I can't think of what right now.

If I had to guess, first aid and/or stealth. Two very popular character mainstays, both conspicuously absent from the list. That said, you could easily call first aid (or surgery, depending on how many ranks you have) a profession, and I've always thought stealth characters are highly overrated. Besides, any character should be able to sneak to some degree without having to spend points.

Finally, there's a whole bunch of abilities that have been omitted from the Tacharis list (animal handling, speechcraft, etc), though all those are obscure enough to call a profession as well.

[Rookie]

Plus we've eliminated the magic factor and most super-human abilities. I personally prefer the simplicity of this character chart. Very easy to follow and remember, and you don't get the super-chars.

But this will be fun, with the added DM it will move faster and the countries and plot have all been thought out. This map is better than my other maps and it will be easier to keep track of with fewer towns to remember.

This will probably do better than the Warriors from Baldaris if we play it right. This had a great more planning involved, and $tormin is going to be a good DM.

Enough praise, time for Rookie to hit the sack.